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Customary and reasonable fees - 90 days

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That guy at the state board who gets to set the fee will always end up getting
a really good job at the AMC right after he quits the state and joins the AMC.

You go to an extreme again. Its the ONE guy, THE DICTATOR OF FEES, SOVIET UNION, STALIN.... I can't have a discussion with extremists, whether they are democratic, republican, free market or vegetarian...Well, maybe vegetarian.....
 
TITLE XIV—MORTGAGE REFORM AND ANTI-PREDATORY LENDING ACT
Sec. 1400. Short title; designation as enumerated consumer law.
H. R. 4173—11

Subtitle F—Appraisal Activities

Subtitle F—Appraisal Activities
SEC. 1471. PROPERTY APPRAISAL REQUIREMENTS.
Chapter 2 of the Truth in Lending Act (15 U.S.C. 1631 et
seq.) is amended by inserting after 129G (as added by section
1464(b)) the following new section:


‘‘§ 129E. Appraisal independence requirements

‘‘(i) CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE FEE.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Lenders and their agents shall compensate fee appraisers at a rate that is customary and reasonable for appraisal services performed in the market area of the property being appraised. Evidence for such fees may be established by objective third-party information, such as government agency fee schedules, academic studies, and independent private sector surveys. Fee studies shall exclude assignments ordered by known appraisal management companies.

‘‘(3) EXCEPTION FOR COMPLEX ASSIGNMENTS.—In the case
of an appraisal involving a complex assignment, the customary
and reasonable fee may reflect the increased time, difficulty,
and scope of the work required for such an appraisal and
include an amount over and above the customary and reasonable
fee for non-complex assignments.


As written, the Law stipulates NO Minimum "fixed" C&R fee. C&R DOES, and MUST, vary Market-to-Market and Appraiser to Appraiser reflecting an Open, Competitive, Market. Given long-existing Federal Laws which mandate Lenders select and ONLY utilize COMPETENT, Ethical, Professional Appraisers - Regulators should finally begin Enforcing both prior existing and this New Law.

This new law clearly stipulates that Lenders are directly responsible for the actions of any Third Party Contracted Vendors - i.e. BOTH AMCs and directly-retained Appraisers.

The exclusion of an AMC surcharge suggests that Consumers rightfully should pay the ACTUAL, local C&R appraisal fee based on Location, Property Type, and Complexity. Consumers rightfully should NOT be required to pay an Inflated "Composite" Fee which includes any additional Surcharges above and beyond the typical LOCAL, Actual, Fees charged to NON-AMC Clients (i.e. Retail v Heavily Discounted Wholesale).
 
I recall getting calls from both U.S. Bank and Rels (Wells Fargo) doing price
surveys two or three years ago. And then saying, "Well, we'd like you on
our panel if you'd just agree to our printed fee schedule so we can automatically
send out these requests. We know you've done work for us in the past, and
we'd like to keep you, but you have to be willing to take $50 less."

Haven't done any direct work for them since. If they don't only use appraisers who
will stick to the fee schedule, then what would happen to the business model?
 
TITLE XIV—MORTGAGE REFORM AND ANTI-PREDATORY LENDING ACT
Sec. 1400. Short title; designation as enumerated consumer law.
H. R. 4173—11

Subtitle F—Appraisal Activities

Subtitle F—Appraisal Activities
SEC. 1471. PROPERTY APPRAISAL REQUIREMENTS.


As written, the Law stipulates NO Minimum "fixed" C&R fee. C&R DOES, and MUST, vary Market-to-Market and Appraiser to Appraiser reflecting an Open, Competitive, Market. Given long-existing Federal Laws which mandate Lenders select and ONLY utilize COMPETENT, Ethical, Professional Appraisers - Regulators should finally begin Enforcing both prior existing and this New Law.

I thought everything I suggested was within the spirit of this law. When I suggested that a "judgement" may be involved. I meant it as an appraiser makes judgements based upon different sources of data. If only one independent data source is used, there is no need for a group of regulators to use Judgement based upon market data. If different sources of R&S fees are used, then some reconcilation of the data would be needed - as in, an appraisal of market fee data. I did not mean that it wasn't fundamentally all based upon markets - which is the point I was trying to get at. It takes me twice as long or three times as long to do appraisals in certain areas (mountains, sparsley populated counties.

They be non-complex properties, but the area makes them complex. Complexity, is sometimes regionally indicated. Some limited recognition of this more regional phenomenon is what I want to promote....and then leave the fine tuning and specific tailoring of the fee to a particular property to the individual appraiser and their competition with other appraisers.
 
I'm sure that the C&R fee minimum is not going to negatively affect appraisers in rural areas. It's probably going to have the most affect on densely populated areas with no shortage of appraisers. Appraisers in rural areas will still be getting higher fees than we would say in S. FL. Only now we would be able to compete on the merits of our work as opposed to having our fees dictated to us by some phone monkey looking for a promotion for saving the AMC the most money for X months in a row. Simply because there would be a floor that wasn't there before. If an AMC tries to dictate a C&R quote to an appraiser who is not in an area with a lot of other appraisers, and that appraiser thinks the fee is a joke, then the appraiser can just tell them to do better, or do it themselves. I can only see positives coming from this. If they want to shop around complex assignments for a minimum fee, hey, let them knock themselves out. Quality matters again I hear. I'm also hearing from a few different sources that many in the lending world are absolutely fed up with AMC's. Amazing, they were GIVEN the world, and they even screwed that up...
 
The purpose of collecting your personal information is nothing more than for me to be able to do random audits. Obviouly there needs to be assurance that those taking the survey are indeed licensed appraisers. It is also to ensure that appraisers respond ony once.No personal info will be published in survey results.

I need a significant response to be meaningful. It is possible that implementation could get delayed if they don't have surveys to rely upon. So please pass the link on to every appraiser you know, www.feesurvey.com.

I have engaged a university professor to compile the results and analyze them. I am seeking data from multiple lenders as well although this isn't as easy as it might seem. Some bundle the appraisal fee with credit and other fees into an application fee.

Joan,

The implementation has been delayed because it was effective at the signing of the bill by the president, that Appraisers were to be paid the C&R fees.

Now, you are all running to make up surveys of what fees Appraisers will ACCEPT as customary and reasonable, when in fact HUD policy since 1997 has been that the combined fees of Appraisal and Appraisal Management have been THE appraisal fee and could not be charged to the borrower any more than what is Customary and Reasonable.

The survey needs to be of the fees that where charged to borrowers over the past year. Those fees are recorded on the HUD 1 Statements. Which should be in the files of all the nifty title companies, which are also TAVMA members, so get them to start faxing over those HUD 1 statements because that is the real proof., not surveying appraisers that could not dictate their own fees for lending work over the past year and including additional time, expense and liability for the 1004-MC form, dealing with ever changing "new" client requirements and mandates, and all the call backs cause by thrid party providers that do not read the reports and ask for comment s that are in reports. Very few appraisers have been able to charge extra for these "problem" clients that hold paychecks, 30, 60, 90, 120+ days. Let's face it, if I'm paid at the door I would probably accept less than if I have to make 3 phone calls and wait 120 days to get paid. All of these considerations need to be included in fees.

Please reference Mortgage Letters 97-22, 97-46, 2008-43 and 2009-28 Here you will find the definitions that state that the combined appraisal and management fees can not be more than the C&R appraisal fee, and since AMCs took over the lending end of the appraisal business, your survey needs to be those fees that have been charged and paid by the borrowers.

I'm sure you knew this already because you are a smart women, so let us question why you feel the need to ensure that your survey takers are appraisers?

Is it perhaps because appraisers may not know that HUD mandated combined fees could not be more than customary and reasonable therefore you could get a bunch of appraisers to say they would accept less than what is already being paid, leaving money on the table for the industry leeches to grab?

Regardless to your survey results, either borrowers have been charged more than the customary and reasonable appraisal fees over the past year and might be able to file class action suites because of it, or, consumers have been charged the customary and reasonable appraisal fees and that now is the fee that must be paid to the appraisers, leaving the AMCs to collect their fee from their clients, the banks.
 
Sometimes I wonder if Ms. Trice is trying desperately *not* to grasp certain ideas. For example she thinks that consumer protection is 'new' to appraisers, she must have been trying very hard for many years to not 'get' that one, as appraisals are exactly that-consumer protection. Currently she refuses to look at the HUD-1 recorded APPRAISAL FEES paid to appraisers and wants to make collecting data which she is going to use for _____ as difficult for herself as possible by combining a 'variety of data points' which she is going to then-reconcile somehow?
 
Sometimes I wonder if Ms. Trice is trying desperately *not* to grasp certain ideas. For example she thinks that consumer protection is 'new' to appraisers, she must have been trying very hard for many years to not 'get' that one, as appraisals are exactly that-consumer protection. Currently she refuses to look at the HUD-1 recorded APPRAISAL FEES paid to appraisers and wants to make collecting data which she is going to use for _____ as difficult for herself as possible by combining a 'variety of data points' which she is going to then-reconcile somehow?


Dear Caligirl,

FTR, this is my first post in this thread. I have not read the entire thread but feel compelled to comment on two things you noted above. Also know that in the past I've been both critical and complimentary of Ms. Trice.

Someone in Ms. Trice's position does not have authority or resources to assemble and survey HUD1 data sets. The Fed, Treasury, OTS and other regulators do. The GSEs do. The VA and FHA do. But private enterprise, such as Ms. Trice, would have a problem prying loose info that lenders are obligated by GLB with keeping private.

Secondly, appraisals are mandated by CFR regs (and now presumably by the new legislation), not as consumer protections but as lender protections. Appraisals are mandated so that lenders can maker better collateral lending decisions. If they also have a benefit by provide consumers some level of protection from stupid decision making, that is a secondary consideration only.
 
Someone in Ms. Trice's position does not have authority or resources to assemble and survey HUD1 data sets. The Fed, Treasury, OTS and other regulators do. The GSEs do. The VA and FHA do. But private enterprise, such as Ms. Trice, would have a problem prying loose info that lenders are obligated by GLB with keeping private.

I think you hit the nail on the head. ;)

Secondly, appraisals are mandated by CFR regs (and now presumably by the new legislation), not as consumer protections but as lender protections. Appraisals are mandated so that lenders can maker better collateral lending decisions. If they also have a benefit by provide consumers some level of protection from stupid decision making, that is a secondary consideration only.

Lending work is not the only type of work appraisers do. However, an appraisal for lending does protect the buyer who is taking out the loan. And frankly, given the current economic situation protecting the banks *is* consumer protection.
 
"Lenders still want to make loans but their incentives remain misaligned," said Joan Trice, the president of Allterra Group LLC, which publishes the newsletter Appraisal Buzz.
Trice, a 23-year veteran of the business, said Fannie is trying to address some of the "unintended consequences" of the Home Valuation Code of Conduct that have resulted in as much as 70% of appraisals being routed through third-party appraisal management companies

http://www.structuredfinancenews.com...-208016-1.html
 
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