Customary and reasonable fees - 90 days

[KenAZ]

The AMC and the lender negotiated their fee, and the appraiser and the lender negotiated their fee. The fees are meant to be separate. HUD MUST of knew that the AMCs are greedy and abuse would take place.

This is the way it should have been all along. Acme AMC will get a set $zzz amount for each appraisal that goes through. This rate was set by the AMC and the lender. Appraiser gets a "customary rate" from the lender.
Now if the AMC does not know how to run a business or the CEO is making enough, they cannot just steal it from the appraiser.

Maybe the attorney general or HUD should look into it for fraud.

It was even worse than that. I have discussed the fees with homeowners (Please don't tell anyone) I never tell them what I am getting, but I do tell them that it is a lot less.

What I learned is that there were some AMC's that were soooooo greedy

Crowd: How greedy were they?

They would charge a $400 appraiser fee and a $200 AMC fee, and still pay the appraiser $200.

 

[Bearslide]

I find this interesting also. It's an old HUD statement: http://www.HUD.gov/offices/adm/hudcl...es/97-22ml.txt

FEES

FHA field offices will no longer establish maximum appraisal
fees. However, a lender's charge to the borrower for an
appraisal must be no more than the actual amount charged by and
paid to the appraiser, subject to the fee being reasonable and
customary for an appraisal in the area in which the property is
located. That fee may be included in the closing costs upon
which the mortgage is based. Lenders that utilize their own
staff appraiser may charge a fee to the mortgagor which does not
exceed that which is reasonable and customary in the area.
Lenders utilizing management firms that secure the appraisal on behalf of the lender may only charge the mortgagor the actual amount paid to and received by the appraiser, subject to the reasonable and customary cap. Lenders dealing with service providers which charge reasonable and customary fees but pay the appraiser less than they charge the lender may only have the mortgagor pay what was charged by and paid to the appraiser.


I'm I reading this right?

If I'm not, it's been a long day. If I am...


I think there is a hell of a lot of money that the AMC's and the lenders owe to the borrowers. Get out your check books. Class action lawsuit anyone. HUD 1?


I guess we now know why every AMC puts on their engagement letter "do not discuss the appraisal fee with the borrower" We are ripping them off and taking advantage of them. So please do not discuss the fees. :blush: PS, please do not tell HUD or FHA, thanks.



HELLO!!!!!

Good find, NC. I would LOVE to see a class action suit, particularly against the big box AMCs. These thieves have been ripping off the public for a LONG time - aided and abetted by Andy Coumo and Fannie/Freddie.

In the mean time, I will repeat what I've said in other threads. SAY NO - they can't pay low fees if they have no one to pay them to. I will also quote MichiganCG - "grow a pair".

All the surveys in the world do not reflect the realities. Base fees are just that - starting points. Complexity and assignment conditions determine the fee and the turn time - NOT some survey or behind closed doors meeting. To me, this whole thing with the surveys and "reasonable and customary" is price fixing.

I'm not buying the arguements put forth that the banks wouldn't know what to charge their borrowers. Well, my, my. They somehow knew what to charge them prior to the HVCC. And if initial research indicated a higher fee, it was requested, explained to the borrower or absorbed by the bank and approved. What's the problem here? I'll tell you - the problem is AMCs. They are an added cost with no added value. The sooner the banks wake up to that fact, the better off we'll all be - and most especially the consumer.

 

[Elliott]

I for one, never miss an opportunity to tell the lending public about
Cuomo, HVCC, Too Big Too Fail Banks, Big Title/Rating Agencies, Goldman
Sachs, and AMCs who have skrewed up conventional lending and why
30 to 40% of refis are never accomplished. Its part of my responsibility to
'promote and maintain a high level of public trust' in real estate appraisals.

 

[Bearslide]

quote=Elliott;2017927]I for one, never miss an opportunity to tell the lending public about
Cuomo, HVCC, Too Big Too Fail Banks, Big Title/Rating Agencies, Goldman
Sachs, and AMCs who have skrewed up conventional lending and why
30 to 40% of refis are never accomplished. Its part of my responsibility to
'promote and maintain a high level of public trust' in real estate appraisals.

Ditto. I often provide them the link to the AF, DSNews, ThinkBigWorkSmall,etc.

 

[Caligirl]

'Customary and reasonable fee' is whatever the appraiser charges for the job after discussion of the SOW and determination of the complexity of the property, analysis, availability of data, etc.

Setting fees sounds a bit like price fixing, no? I'm surprised our appraisal orgs think this is a good idea.

 

[AnonApprsr]

If banks/lenders are going to collude to engage in "supply fixing" than why shouldn't we try our hardest to engage in "price fixing"?

 

[Elliott]

It does beg the question, so if fees are not 'reasonable and customary',
sans legislation....appraisal fees paid by AMCs can be 'unreasonably low
and capricious'?

 

[NC Appraising]

'Customary and reasonable fee' is whatever the appraiser charges for the job after discussion of the SOW and determination of the complexity of the property, analysis, availability of data, etc.

Setting fees sounds a bit like price fixing, no? I'm surprised our appraisal orgs think this is a good idea.

HELLOOOOOO!!!!!

Go and try to get approved with LSI or RELS. They will send you a FIXED price sheet that they pay by county or state.

One company telling 15,000 appraisers a set price is not price fixing? And do not even give me the "accounting nightmare" thingy. Fools gold.


Also, how is customary and reasonable price fixing? No where is says that all appraisers must be paid the same thing. How about those re agents and the 6%? price fixing? No.


Call up thirty appraisers in your area, and you will probably get a range from $275-$400. That is "customary and reasonable". NOTHING wrong with that. It's a fact.

 

[AnonApprsr]

Meh, I work for RELS and I don't get paid their "fees", I set my own.

 

[Fritz in NY]

Just say NO, I keep getting broadcast orders from valuation p something for $ 200. They are accepted before I can log in to the site. WTF.
I'm not a slave, but I draw the line at a certain price (biz practice).
Let's cut off all trainees, so they never finish there required hours. We would have no new skippies happy to take $ 200. when as a trainee they are getting $ 150+/-.