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Data Cancer Due to Waivers

George Hatch said:
Just in case anyone here missed the thread where we added more details about these transactions to the analysis. And the LOL to use of price/sf with this type of dataset.

bluechip

Thread 'Data Cancer found....'

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Every Realtor in this country uses $/psf. It's on the front of every F/F form. The public relies on $/psf. It's flawed in many cases, but in some cases it really isn't. If the public is ingrained in this method, why do appraisers arrogantly dismiss it before ever seriously looking at it?
 
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Joyce Potts said:
Every Realtor in this country uses $/psf. It's on the front of every F/F form. The public relies on $/psf. It's flawed in many cases, but in some cases it really isn't. If the public is ingrained in this method, why to appraisers arrogantly dismiss it before ever seriously looking at it?
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And we ignore them every time they do it. Mr. Crawford is exactly the first professional appraiser I've ever seen who has tried to use that unit of comparison with SFRs in an appraisal discussion. Not to mention the wide range of unit sizes and (in the case of the waterfront parcels) the different lot values in the mix.

The difference between why an untrained layperson uses it and appraisers don't is because we consider the differences on a line-by-line basis.

Now I do CG work and I use price/sf for many different property types. But not for SFRs and not for multi-family or small SFR parcels. And when I do use price/sf I am still applying individual adjustments on the line-by-line, which that isn't how Mr Crawford used it.

With that said, if you agree with his use of this *unadjusted* unit of comparison with this particular dataset that's fine by me. I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room. If I was reviewing an appraisal report on an SFR and some appraiser tried to hang the majority of their reasoning on a price/sf analysis with a dataset like this I'd kick it back and make them redo it. And so would most appraisers.

The word of the day in SFR-Land is "supporting adjustment factors".
 
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George Hatch said:
We laugh at them every time they do it. Mr. Crawford is exactly the first professional appraiser I've ever seen who has tried to use that unit of comparison with SFRs in an appraisal discussion. Not to mention the wide range of unit sizes and (in the case of the waterfront parcels) the different lot values in the mix.

Now I do CG work and I use price/sf for many different property types. But not for SFRs and not for multi-family or small SFR parcels.
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You haven't been reading many of my posts over the years in this other FB Appraisal groups. I've often used the $/psf in court testimony if the argument works in my favor because the judges and jurors RELATE TO IT.
 
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Joyce Potts said:
You haven't been reading many of my posts over the years in this other FB Appraisal groups. I've often used the $/psf in court testimony if the argument works in my favor because the judges and jurors RELATE TO IT.
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Okay, but did you use it without even considering the differences between these properties? Because I never have. Ever.

And besides, he's not talking to untrained laypersons who are otherwise unfamiliar with appraising SFRs; and who don't understand how to apply adjustments (we adjust the comp, not the subject). He's talking to his professional peers who know better. Their feelings on the fee appraisal business notwithstanding.

Like I said, if the facts involved resonate with you that's fine by me. I don't tell anyone what to think, much less appraisers. Nobody tells appraisers what to think. All we do in these discussions is show our reasoning and let everyone decide for themselves what does/doesn't make sense to them.

Speaking of, his whole power snivel about me somehow trying to discredit his analysis is spectacularly illogical and irrational. If you perform an appraisal that you think is credible then how does adding more details and facts about the data therein amount to "discrediting" it? Credible is credible, right?

If the analysis actually is credible then all adding more factual info to it will do is add to the credibility, not subtract from it. That's exactly what we've done on this forum - many times over the last couple years - when we have looked into the various media stories that alleged the appraiser was racist. We identified the property in question and looked into the data; and in almost every case we can at least see how the original appraiser came to that conclusion and how the 2nd appraisal went wrong by using dissimilar locations. In all of those examples we have yet to see one where the 2nd or 3rd appraisal was anywhere near reasonable.

This exercise isn't any different from those.
 
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Joyce Potts said:
It's flawed in many cases, but in some cases it really isn't.
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If using PPF as a basis for comparison, I don't see it as flawed - so long as it's being used appropriately. And by that I mean when the comparison is apples to apples. Can't compare large homes to small homes based on PPF but that doesn't mean it's flawed - it just means that method of comparison doesn't work for that data set.
 
Joyce Potts said:
You haven't been reading many of my posts over the years in this other FB Appraisal groups. I've often used the $/psf in court testimony if the argument works in my favor because the judges and jurors RELATE TO IT.
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You have to remember there are many cookie cutter areas. Tennessee for example is very heterogeneous for the most part. Nashville and Knoxville corporate limits are probably the most homogenous market areas relative to market value of real property.

Memphis corporate limits is very heterogenous relative to market value of real property and rural TN is also.

Nashville and Knoxville also have very heterogeneous areas but nothing compared to Memphis and Shelby County.

Same same with much of rural Tennessee being very heterogeneous in market values per location. Price per sf won't work with a strong witness against you.

That is why NAR don't want waivers.

That waiver puppy will bite. Mark my words.
 
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Joyce Potts said:
You haven't been reading many of my posts over the years in this other FB Appraisal groups. I've often used the $/psf in court testimony if the argument works in my favor because the judges and jurors RELATE TO IT.
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IN CAPTIAL LETTERS.

I suppose belligerence goes a long way in court. Just because people can relate to it does not make it credible enough to be used in an appraisal. We adjust for the contributory value of additional sf to the whole, not the sf cost as vacant, and not the misleading combo of a land and house price, or total sale price divided by living area sf the way RE agents do
 
Of course PPF is credible enough to be used in an appraisal - so long as it's being used appropriately.
 
It shows somewhat ignorance on GSE imho on thinking the wavier puppy will not bite us all.

My dogs have always minded me. This waiver puppy will bite the GSE and lender and taxpayer will pay the price of the cure.

I have been down this hunting trail before.
 
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