Does Going Public Help?

[Farm Gal]

g:

In my case I am/was a knowlegable buyer, purchasing a business venture, Lot split, housebuilding etc. I closed because I KNEW that I was going to make money on the land, the fact that it took the lots post split to pull the negative on the houses we finished out of the tank was as I said before a market timeing issue, nothing more.

The public perception is that appraisers ARE professionals working for them!!! Inclusive of this gal.

How many times have you had to inform a homeowner that s/he isn't your client? and that they have to apply to the lender for the appriasal?

It is my opinion that persons like this need to make thier stories heard, so a few more folks get a clue! The media might even get it right :roll:

Sorry if I got a little hot, but sheesh go re-read your post to me and see what you think?

Sign me a "not a whiner, eyes wide open even if the local economy does take it in the shorts" and true believer that someone needs to inform the public that
a. they aint the client
b. the bank/mortgage company/lender-of-any-other-ilk is NOT neccesarily working in their personal best interest
c. If ya wanna know what your house is really worth go hire a REAL professional for an independant opinion!
(at least we agree on C)

 

[John Hassler]

I think Graindart was dead-on with his first post.

The appraisal is for the lenders internal use to rate the property. The appraisal is the lenders way to rate the property. Much in the same way credit scores rate the worthiness of the borrower. The fact that you receive a copy of the appraisal is for polical appeasement (borrowers vote). However, it is the law and you are definately entitled to a copy from the lender, not the appraiser, I might add.

Neverwilllearn has no economic damages. The lender allegedly, even likely, overvalued the security. So what as far as Neverwilllearn is concerned. While no loan amount was mentioned, the complaint apparently
stems from the loan being greater than the market value. Where is your loss? If you walks from your property, which you claim was really only worth $95,000 but got loan proceeds for >$95,001 congratulations, you just took the lender for more than your property is worth - not the morally best way in my book but legal and in accordance with the trust deed, promissory note, mortgage, or whatever they call it in your state. If you continue to make your loan payments as you promised, welcome to the world of responsibilities that the majority of us live in. You have no downside, at least as far as the promise between you and your lender. Now being the lender, that's appears to be a down side position.


Yes, predator lending does exist but is usually limited to overvaluing the borrowers ability to repay the loan. The typical goal is to get a property with considerable equity by extending credit to a person/entity who does not have the ability to repay. Neverwilllearn’s lender made a loan for more than a property was worth - not a path I would recommend for increasing the lenders net profit and hardly predatory. Now, if there were an insincere loan officer and appraiser in the mix, the lender may be able to claim damages form them if they take back the property at a loss.

Neverwilllearn has only themselves to blame for his/her apparent poor money management. As Graindart said "suck it up and deal".

John Hassler

 

[Farm Gal]

I don't terribly mind G telling neverwilllearn to suck up and deal, but it sounded as if that advice was directed at me...

I used my personal example to indicate that the lender sometimes doesn't play by the rules as we know 'em and even a knowlegable person can have difficulty accessing the information that the lender is required to dispense per the Code of Federal Register!

This is not neccesarily to state that she has a case, nor to beat up what ever appraiser DID the work. Sometimes the borrower pays for work never performed, shoddy work etc. I am not saying that in the homeowner was in this instance an implied user, however the PUBLIC percetion of paying for an appriasal is that it is "their' appraisal. I been around this bidness long enough to recall a time when the appriaser was the only one wroking for the borrower.... based on prior thread comments,
it certainly sounds as if there MIGHT be a possibility of predetory lending occuring in her case.

Everyone is entitled to spout off on this forum, I took some of those remarks personally as they appeared to be directed at me, not the original poster.

If I am mistaken, fine guess i got a little crow to eat, if not then I stand by every hot word I wrote! adn since I jus went back and rearead both sets of comments and came to the same conclusion.. well I think I shan't be spitting feathers at dinner. :roll:

 

[John Hassler]

Lee Ann, that "suck up and deal" was meant for Neverwilllearn. I was just reiterating what graindart stated. It was not directed at your nor is it any of our business how you prepare your fowl.

Now, just so you know, this rest of this post is directed to you. In your last post you said there "MIGHT (your caps, not mine) be a possibility" of wrong doing but it a previous you recommended Neverwilllearn "yell scream and holler as loud as you can ". I would suggest Neverwilllearn eliminate the MIGHT first before claiming damages in the media. You have the right concept, just the worng order.

The lender for Neverwilllearn should have promptly proivided a copy of the appraisal once it was requested. It's the law, there's nothing to argue here, it's cut and dry. Yell scream and holler would be good advise for a "next step" here.
Neverwilllearn has apparently been able to make mortgage payments for 3+ years so I see no over-extension of credit. You can call the lender many things (stupid comes to mind) but predatory is not one of them. If you see otherwise, please explain. I'm all ears (and I love fresh game bird).


John Hassler

 

[graindart]

I was just going to let this thread die, but re-read neverwilllearn's initial post.

I don't think that the initial bank is withholding the appraisal out of any wrong doing, but probably out of laziness, or maybe they sold the loan and don't have the appraisal anymore. 3 years is a long time to go back and ask for a copy of an appraisal, I'm sure the loan officer can't just pull it out of his/her desk drawer.

And I still get a kick out of the statement neverwilllearn wrote:

I totally relied on the Appraisal the Bank required me to get from THEIR sources.

Neverwilllearn "totally relied" on it, but never saw it. Makes sense to me.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Neverwilllearn "totally relied" on it, but never saw it. Makes sense to me.

As appraisers, we have knowledge of this crazy real estate business that others do not.

If a medical lab took test and told me I have a disease, I would probably believe them. Even if I asked for the lab test results in writing, I don't know that I would understand what I was looking at; I would need to consult a professional in that field. Shoot, I know some Realtors that don't know how to read an appraisal!

If a bank was making the loan, stating that they did an appraisal, why would any typical homeowner who is not involved in real estate at all not believe the bank regarding the value when they are willing to loan the money on their 'appraisal'?

Ease up guys. Just because we know what's going on doesn't mean everybody else does. This sounds like predatory lending to me with the information provided. My opinion may be revised if additional facts were to be presented.

 

[graindart]

I don't agree with your analogy at all........in your analogy the medical lab (that performed the tests) told you that you have a disease, that you would rely on this information. You'd have to carry that straight across for the loan process. It's the appraiser that performed the "tests" on the property. If the appraiser, or his/her office, told you that your house was worth zzz amount, you could rely on that.

I think the only analogy that could be used is:

loan officer = doctor
appraiser = medical lab
appraisal = med. lab report

If you meant your doctor told you that you have a disease, based on the medical lab report.......the doctor that I'm trusting is licensed, has been through boatloads of schooling, and carries personal insurance to cover what he/she says. I'd trust him/her.

A loan officer comes to work for a B,C lender, walks in the door, starts "selling" mortgages. No license in my state, no schooling, no insurance, nothing. Flippin burgers one day, branch associate manager next day. I wouldn't trust him/her.

 

[Farm Gal]

G:
Pam said it first and quite well! I think that the public has been fed a line of bull about who the appriaser is working for as well as what it is that we do. When you toss in a few bad apple appraisers... 8O

Advising the public to seek a second opinion if something doesn't sound right is NEVER out of line (to continue Pam's medical analogy).

There IS preditory lending occurring, and while not all 'victims' are unknowlegable, many are being soaked in fees and refi round wheels and stand to lose a great deal.

[directed at Lee Ann] In your last post you said there "MIGHT (your caps, not mine) be a possibility" of wrong doing but it a previous you recommended Neverwilllearn "yell scream and holler as loud as you can ". I would suggest Neverwilllearn eliminate the MIGHT first before claiming damages in the media. You have the right concept, just the worng order.

John: my advice to scream and holler is based on MY personal desire to get information out to the public, and assuming that some GOOD reporter gets the story, regardless of outcome, it will further my personal goal of insuring that the public has a better idea of what is going on!!! Inclusive of the poster.

Hence my advice! I assume that if she is guilty or stupid, that it will be so explained by folks with the 'rest of the story' to work with, If she is a victim, the exposure sure isn't going to hurt!

Personal experience indicates that without a lever to move a bank it sits there solid as stone... headbutting the sides gets you lumps. With a lever you can tip it a tad, peer around and maybe see what scuttles out from underneath. If it is solid and vermin free: gently set it back down and walk away. :wink: the lumps will heal eventually. Letting vermin eat at the base long enough brings stuff down with crashes that destroy folks :evil:

Rememebr the S&L's

and with that I shall ride off into the sunset, vermin/bug killer at my side

DRAW!

 

[BenLuby]

Now I have a question for those reading this.
Neverwilllearn bought the house in 97 for 85k. Over the period of three years, until 2000, she took out two loans, one in 99 for 115k, another the following year for 117k.
First, were no other houses sold in the area? That is a 35% increase in value in 24 months. Should have bought two.
And, from reading the other, previous posting by her, she states that the new 103k value is from an AVM.
Has she not gotten an appraisal done? My biggest question is, with all the howling going on, another appraisal, by an appraiser, should be done, no value given to them. Just tell the appraiser fair market value. Let them do the rest.
Neverwilllearn also stated that she found out about it when she went down to take another loan out. That was when she discovered she was upside down on the mortgage.
I agree with graindart about sucking the bottle dry, but I also agree with LeeAnn and Pamela. Your car breaks down, you go to the mechanic and ask him to fix it, you don't climb under the hood and check it out with him.
Banks, regardless of the fact that graindart and the appraisal profession in general know better, have always given the perception of an organization of professional, college graduated ethical people out to protect the homeowner.
I know that is a load of fresh fertilzer, but the average person doesn't. Basically, it looks like, when the bottle got sucked clean, then Neverwillearn got mad about predatory lending. Question: was the loan FHA?
Question 2: You took out $32,000 in equity in the period of three years, which breaks down to $10,666.66 a year, on top of your salary.
If the average salary is 36k for a teacher, that means you grossed over 46k a year for three years, yet, still went back to the well again.
Maybe the time to ask questions is before you get the cash. LeeAnn, I understand your situation, doing the construction, you basically got caught up where it was take what you can get, and survive, or get raked over the coals. New construction can be brutal and fickle, but sucking all the cash out of a home, then squalling is useless, after the fact. And, realistically, if Neverwilllearn could cash out of the deal again with another refinance, she never would have uttered a peep, even if her house was upside down.
But, once she discovered that the entire process came to a screeching halt, she decided to scream like a banshee. I hope things work out for her, but most of all, I hope she learns to leave the equity in the house for what it is, emergency funds. Not a piggy bank.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Good post Ben.

One other thing to consider and which I have spent some time ranting about: The Realtors, etc. are constantly pumping the media with how 'HOT' the market is and the huge increases in value. The general public believes this. Add to this the banks 'appraisal' and willingness to make the loan..... all the lenders soliciting for refis because the values are rising so much.... and they all say, "Don't worry, we'll take care the appraisal for you."