Equestrian Center

[Ray Miller]

Wouldn't some kind of shelter for the horses in a Wisconsin winter be prudent?

I know the wild one survive outside......I could probably survive in a cave with a fire, but I don't want to. Seems like a horse might like to get out of the elements as well.

When we had horses, they were happy to help themselves to the comfort of the barn on a nasty night (they had the freedom of pasture or barn as they desired). And this was in Florida.

Intersting assignment - Good luck!

Horse will look for wind breaks natural first then man made second. They also need roughage in there bellies. See a horse standing and shivering it is due to lack of roughage in it gut.

See these fools that turn out there box stalled “hot house” horses with blankets on in the snow and rain, blankets are soak the horse is soak to the hide. He is standing there shivering, but I have a blanket on him. Leave the horse hair on and it will protect him/her from the cold and wet.

If fed well, you will see a lot of horses standing out side in poor weather with their asses turn to the wind and weather. Even if a wind break is present.

 

[JT1974]

If fed well, you will see a lot of horses standing out side in poor weather with their asses turn to the wind and weather. Even if a wind break is present.

This is true my friend. When I was learning to fly airplanes my flight instructor told me that if you ever wanted to check the wind direction quickly, look at what direction the cattle are facing. He said they always stand with their butts pointed into the wind. I thought he was crazy, but this actually works most of the time!

 

[Ray Miller]

There'll be a 20K sf Coverall arena, a high end tack room and 2 story lounge overlooking the arena, 2,500 SF earth-berm home (living quarters for 2 trainers) and all the other necessary components EXCEPT for stalls! The horses will be contained in tracks instead, outside.

The arena and home sound spacious and high end but how do you train these horses in the winter when living outside is going to give them heavy coats? Hard work would get them wet and then you have to get them dried out before they are put back outside. It sounds like they will have a lot of loss of use during the cold weather.

I am not sure what a "track" is. Is it a fenced area?

Good points.

Is the barn/arena going to be heated? Is the tack room space for each owner to maintain their saddles and equipment in a private setting? Is there storage space for training carts and buggies? Is there wash racks? Is there space to keep a sick horse up in and away from other horses? Is there an indepedant veterinary area to set aside for the care of horses when the vet is there? Is there an independent farrier area? IF so what is provided: hard surface, fans, heat, water, ties of some type?

Is there a building for related and need equipment such as: tractors, harrows, manure spreaders, carts and wagons?

Is there hay storage on site for the required amount of hay needed to maintain the large number of horses horses? Is there grain storage? Horse needs to consume 2% +of it body weight a day. 1000 lb horse would be 20# a day x 365 days = 7300# a year x 100 horse = 365 ton of a hay divided by 35# bales = 20857 bales of hay a bale is 18 inches by 38 inches that a lot of space need for just hay storage. $72,999.50 in just raw hay cost minum.

What is the ventilation system, air exchange system is it two staged or one staged. Is there two ventilation system one for air a ground level and one for air up higher.

Is there a holding area for the manure?

Is there a holding area for bedding?

Is there a storage area for the needed replacement of the indoor arena flooring?

What is the dust suppressant system for the arena? Fire suppressant system?

What are the gounds like, fences like, gate like. Are they horse proof?

What is the road base like and parking area for clients cars and trucks? Is there trailer storage Parking?

 

[Ray Miller]

I have read quite a bit about this, will try to find where I found it, it's been a while.

Basically the premise is to keep horses more in their natural state. Stalls being "unnatural" (separating from the heard) and leading to problems like pacing, cribbing, windsucking, weaving, anxiety, casting and stocking up. Keeping them in a more open setting (herd type setting) is supposed to relieve anxiety and keep them moving around. As opposed to keeping them outside with just a lean to, the entire area is covered for sun/rain/wind/snow protection. Why do horse need protection from sun/rain/wind and snow? Why do men think they need protection? Our horse yesterday had free choice of lean-to to and wind break and they chose to stand out in the 10 inches of rain. Why? In winter they choose to stand out in the snow storm with snow piling up on them. Why don't they want the clean level protection that we have provided for them? Same for our herd of ranch horses.

At our barn we have individuals that pay board for a stall, they let their horses in with the other horses in to feed (grain/water/hay) then have theirs let back out, provided there isn't really bad weather.

Edit: Here are some sources I found...
http://www.thehorseshoof.com (look under natural horse care)

http://superhoof.org/natural-boarding-directory.php

These two links show you the kind of hype that enters the equine industry every few years. It all boils down to the basic knowledge that has been brought forth starting with Xenophon in print published in the first and fourthy century or so. But the good basic knowledge is add to by the person trying to promote what they feel is good for the horse. If you dig deep enough you will most of the time find it is a commercial venture. You will also find if you research the history it dies off and then starts over.

Natural and Bare Foot/hoof was taught long before these people were even thought of. It like they rediscovered the wheel that had never been discovered in the first place.

Most of these people have never taken the time to read the first book on horsemanship by Xenophon and then move forward with the great legions of war and battle horses, work horses of history that were used in the world. Nor have they taken time to study the use of the work horse in history. Nor have most of then ever work with large numbers of horses in a commercial setting. They have failed to read the books of the Spanish Riding School. They are for the most part one or maybe two generation of horse owners, most of which have never work commercially, ranch where horses are used, farm with horses. They for the most part are considered back yard horse owners.

The first thing I learn 50 some years ago when learning to shoe a horse was: horse only need shoes for; protection – that being when the environment grinds or wears the hoof wall down to the point that the the wall can not replace its self, they need shoes for protection. Some will tell you a horse can develop a hoof that will not do this. I have publicly changed those in the barefoot industry to prove this theory (www.horseshoes.com ); they have not been able to. Many quote the feral horse as proof, but they fail to note that the feral horse in the wild carriers no rider, a burden of extra weight. The second reason is Therapeutic reasons such as pedal osteitis, or injury to the hoof. The third is for traction like ice, pulling large loads, etc. Other wise a horse really never needs to be shod.

I doubt there are many who have the history and meeting minutes from 1356 forward of the Worshipful Company of Farriers in there library. Rachel Cohen has a good write on the history of the horseshoe from the first century forward.

Horse ownership in this country in the fifties use to own horses for 20 or more years, then that dropped to 10 years in 60’s and 70’s in the 80’s to 5 to 7 years. Now the most common is two to three years. In a lot of cases it is less then a year. They have gone through the hyped been hosed, find out it a lot of work and expense to own a horse. There is a hard core group that still have owned horse for 20+ years but they are far and few between.

So when doing an evaluation or an appraisal a person needs in-depth knowledge or can get the in depth knowledge of the industry locally, regionally, nationally and internationally. The markets, the trends, the cycle and where we are in that cycle. Just like you would for sheep (Montana Blonds), pigs/hogs, cattle, chickens, dairy cattle. If you are on the commercial side or the show reg. side.

Just my thinking.

 

[Wendy]

Ray,
You are a wealth of equine knowledge!!!

 

[Farm Gal]

Actually what I was getting at with regard to stables being an overimprovement is-- when hay (and the cost of horse maintainance goes real high, hayburners go out of style except for those who can readily afford them... And those folks don't like shoveling manure - they get someone else to do it for them... But the number of 'folks who can afford' is generally less than those who are willing to shovel... RPrincipal of substitution: there will likely be a glut of properties on the market with really expensive and nice stables... why build when you could buy near-new at 1/3 the cost? That's what happened in CA in the late 70's early 80s - hmmm that corresponded with the LAST oil crisis didn't it?

I had a horse as a teen - fed & shoveled where the Doctors kids didn't want to. All the same to me - the 'pay' (fee stabling and low cost access to feed)and ability to have the horse outweighed the hassle of doing the work. Horse meant freedom! They had a lean-to... 3 horses 15 acres. same observations

~~~~~~~
LOL - Ditto Ray's preference for natural wind/weatherbreaks... I have two 'natural' horses and have observed an old mule in the same place

With 160 acres to roam in and a lean-to AND a barn which we will leave open in really bad weather - the horses are mostly to be found sheltering under a tree where there is also some brush for windbreak, or down by the creek.

The only exception is when the big old 1/4 horse mare beats feet for the barn during a summer storm... I know to batten down the hatches FAST - cause that wise old mare seeks a steel roof, if hail is on the way - who knows how SHE knows? but the horse who will cheerfully stand in the field in pouring rain or snow takes cover when hailstones are coming. The mustang and mule both would stand in the open with a coat of ice on their backs - with free-choice access to cover.

Again - I would bet that you could find out who built such facilities (if any) and who went belly up in the process AND what the places sold for after! Horses is a smallish world.

And double ditto Ray that there are a lot of wise old horsement & women who never make the front pages - but enjoy a reputation for whispering... (I did forget to list Lyons:blush

 

[Ray Miller]

Actually what I was getting at with regard to stables being an overimprovement is-- when hay (and the cost of horse maintainance goes real high, hayburners go out of style except for those who can readily afford them... And those folks don't like shoveling manure - they get someone else to do it for them... But the number of 'folks who can afford' is generally less than those who are willing to shovel... RPrincipal of substitution: there will likely be a glut of properties on the market with really expensive and nice stables... why build when you could buy near-new at 1/3 the cost? That's what happened in CA in the late 70's early 80s - hmmm that corresponded with the LAST oil crisis didn't it?

I had a horse as a teen - fed & shoveled where the Doctors kids didn't want to. All the same to me - the 'pay' (fee stabling and low cost access to feed)and ability to have the horse outweighed the hassle of doing the work. Horse meant freedom! They had a lean-to... 3 horses 15 acres. same observations

~~~~~~~
LOL - Ditto Ray's preference for natural wind/weatherbreaks... I have two 'natural' horses and have observed an old mule in the same place

With 160 acres to roam in and a lean-to AND a barn which we will leave open in really bad weather - the horses are mostly to be found sheltering under a tree where there is also some brush for windbreak, or down by the creek.

The only exception is when the big old 1/4 horse mare beats feet for the barn during a summer storm... I know to batten down the hatches FAST - cause that wise old mare seeks a steel roof, if hail is on the way - who knows how SHE knows? but the horse who will cheerfully stand in the field in pouring rain or snow takes cover when hailstones are coming. The mustang and mule both would stand in the open with a coat of ice on their backs - with free-choice access to cover.

Again - I would bet that you could find out who built such facilities (if any) and who went belly up in the process AND what the places sold for after! Horses is a smallish world.

And double ditto Ray that there are a lot of wise old horsement & women who never make the front pages - but enjoy a reputation for whispering... (I did forget to list Lyons:blush

Some day I hope our trails cross.

Same for here for the hail. They just know some how, may be feel it in their bones or little brain.

 

[Joe Masin]

Thanks for the info, Ray. Always a pleasure to read your informative threads.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

hmmm that corresponded with the LAST oil crisis didn't it?

This time we may need to ride those hoss's....or plug a buggy.. Black Buggy days are coming up in Choteau, OK soon....the Amish can hardly wait.