Fees Clear Capital

[Terrel L. Shields]

a reverse auction flea market

I like that term

 

[djd09]

dont worry...the same revaa agents will whine, moan, and cry about the low quality appraisals on the next thread

 

[George Hatch]

The whole thing reeks because even if the clients /user accepts the lower level appraisal report or less competent appraisers chosen by fee, the borrower and investors are being hoodwinked - they assume competence with impressive sounding bank name and are ignorant that it is once at the AMC level a reverse auction flea market of siliting the lowest bid or comparing for the lower fee in order to wring profit out for a thrid party ( the AMC ). The lenders should be compensating the AMC, -of course, they will not unless forced. to. Maybe their cost can be passed on to the consumer, but they sill would rather continue this way if possible.

Any attempt to normalize it is disgusting. The AMC system as it stands with their compensation paid for out of the appraisal fee stinks in every aspect, even if it is legal. Child labor in America was legal at one time too. I am not trying to make a comparison, as that sounds ridiculous, but the point is that many abusive and exploitative practices were legal at one time.

The doctors have been saying the same (exploitive) about the HMOs for many years. I don't see any trends among the consumers toward opting out of those networks in political or economic solidarity with the workers.

Be mad about it if you want, but the users of these valuation services literally don't care about your feelings. If the individual self-employed wants to do better for themself in this business or any other then the responsibility for identifying and exploiting those opportunities in the market rests with themselves. Not with their potential clients and users. The name of the self-employed game is doing for yourself; not waiting for someone else to do for you.

On the one hand I wish someone was coming to save the fee appraisers. On the other hand I recognize that will probably never happen because nobody cares about appraisers.

 

[J Grant]

The doctors have been saying the same (exploitive) about the HMOs for many years. I don't see any trends among the consumers toward opting out of those networks in political or economic solidarity with the workers.

Be mad about it if you want, but the users of these valuation services literally don't care about your feelings. If the individual self-employed wants to do better for themself in this business or any other then the responsibility for identifying and exploiting those opportunities in the market rests with themselves. Not with their potential clients and users. The name of the self-employed game is doing for yourself; not waiting for someone else to do for you.

On the one hand I wish someone was coming to save the fee appraisers. On the other hand I recognize that will probably never happen because nobody cares about appraisers.

It is not an apt analogy. Doctors did stem the tide of lower fees wrt HMO - and of course doctors are more highly skilled and in demand.
But as far as teh consumer, they CHOOSE an HMO and they benefit from the lower cost of an HMO.

The consumer/borrower does not get to choose that their bank or lender uses an AMC, and the consumer is unaware that a less competent appraiser might be chosen because of the AMC. Teh same goes for the investors that buy the loans.

Appraisers care about appraisers and so do, surprisingly a number of RE agents (they volunteer concern about fees and disdain for some of the out of area AMC appraisers ), and teh same for some individual loan officers. Consumers care too, if they understand the issue.

People in charge in management at the AMC and lender level do not care, or do not care enough to pressure for change. I agree with you on that reality.

 

[George Hatch]

... once at the AMC level a reverse auction flea market of siliting the lowest bid or comparing for the lower fee in order to wring profit out for a thrid party ( the AMC ).

I like that term

Everyone seems to think the marketplace for services can't possibly worse for appraisers than the current environment. I think such an assumption might be limited by their imagination.

Flea markets operate on the small scale, like a farmer's market. Not like a wholesale distribution operation where the transactions are occurring on the industrial scale.

The relative inefficiency of the blast email could conceivably be replaced in the future with an E-Bay live action bidding setup. Appraiser-on-Appraiser competition. I've speculated about the possibility for many years. That was before we started considering how AI might be incorporated into these engagement/management functions.

 

[George Hatch]

It is not an apt analogy. Doctors did stem the tide of lower fees wrt HMO - and of course doctors are more highly skilled and in demand.
But as far as teh consumer, they CHOOSE an HMO and they benefit from the lower cost of an HMO.

The consumer/borrower does not get to choose that their bank or lender uses an AMC, and the consumer is unaware that a less competent appraiser might be chosen because of the AMC. Teh same goes for the investors that buy the loans.

Appraisers care about appraisers and so do, surprisingly a number of RE agents (they volunteer concern about fees and disdain for some of the out of area AMC appraisers ), and teh same for some individual loan officers. Consumers care too, if they understand the issue.

People in charge in management at the AMC and lender level do not care, or do not care enough to pressure for change. I agree with you on that reality.

The consumers of these appraisal reported are the lenders. Not the borrowers. And inasmuch as they're the ones who are actually doing the buying I think it arrogant to assume they somehow don't know or don't understand what they're buying.

So long as these lenders and the investors are satisfied with what they're getting it literally doesn't matter to them what the borrowers think they should do instead; except to the extent those borrowers make different choices about the lenders to whom they are applying for these loans.

 

[Joe Flacco]

Doctors are high paid due to residency requirements creating a barrier to entry.

 

[J Grant]

Everyone seems to think the marketplace for services can't possibly worse for appraisers than the current environment. I think such an assumption might be limited by their imagination.

Flea markets operate on the small scale, like a farmer's market. Not like a wholesale distribution operation where the transactions are occurring on the industrial scale.

The relative inefficiency of the blast email could conceivably be replaced in the future with an E-Bay live action bidding setup. Appraiser-on-Appraiser competition. I've speculated about the possibility for many years. That was before we started considering how AI might be incorporated into these engagement/management functions.

The flea market was meant to be a derogatory analogy.
It is about profit and greed, not the efficiency of a blast email.
I hate your idea of appraisers on appraiser completion live bidding, and I bet even the AMC 's hate it, though they use appraisers on appraiser completion now by comparing bids or fees. But they do not do it in a live auction style, which is not efficient wrt time , and perhaps too degrading even for them.

You are no friend to teh working appraiser if you keep putting forth that idea which you have for a number of years.

 

[George Hatch]

Doctors are high paid due to residency requirements creating a barrier to entry.

The doctors are still unhappy with most aspects of the HMO programs, including the fees.

 

[Joe Flacco]

The thing with this business is that $275 is probably more than the new appraiser was getting fee split as a trainee. And there is probably unlimited number of orders at that price.