FHA and structural defects

[CANative]

The photo I posted is an example of what is referred to around here as "Class K" construction. Hippy owner/builders out in the redwoods. Recycled house parts and tree stumps. lol Some are quite nice.

 

[CANative]

On topic, I would condition the appraisal on inspection using an EA that the condition is not adverse.

 

[norapp]

There is a saying in New York since 9/11 that also applies to appraising. If you see something, say something. Put it in the hands of those who are trained in such matters. There is no way we appraisers could possibly know everything about a home. If we did, we would be something much more lucrative. State what you see and leave it in the lenders hands.

 

[Mark K]

When it comes to 100+ years old homes, sloping floors, uneven doors, unusual construction materials, minor roof sag, etc. are not defects; they are character traits. In this area many of these rural homes were site built with local trees. Portable saw mill was brought to the site, owner cut down some large trees, sliced them up and used the lumber the next day. As the wood dries out over the next few years, the timbers shrink, sometimes up to an inch or more. Things sag and settle. Very typical.

I'd make note of the unusual construction, put in Can's "does not guarantee..." statement or something similar and move on.... unless the floor is bouncing like trampoline.

 

[bobhoney]

When it comes to 100+ years old homes, sloping floors, uneven doors, unusual construction materials, minor roof sag, etc. are not defects; they are character traits. In this area many of these rural homes were site built with local trees. Portable saw mill was brought to the site, owner cut down some large trees, sliced them up and used the lumber the next day. As the wood dries out over the next few years, the timbers shrink, sometimes up to an inch or more. Things sag and settle. Very typical.

I'd make note of the unusual construction, put in Can's "does not guarantee..." statement or something similar and move on.... unless the floor is bouncing like trampoline.

Agreed but does homeowner added column and beam support incorrectly by undersized material and temporary (not solid metal) metal columns constitute a structural defect to make the report subject to a structural engineer or just report observations clearly. I report what I see and typically state subject to structural engineer inspection. I'm trying to determine is just reporting enough in these older homes that are livable or does FHA expect subject to what could be classified as incorrectly installed structural support. ( loads are not distributed correctly and columns are being used to carry load they are not intended to carry).

FHA:
Structural ConditionsThe Appraiser must report on structural conditions so that the Mortgagee can determine if the foundation and Structure of the Property will be serviceable for the life of the Mortgage.The Appraiser must perform a visual observation of the foundation and Structure of the improvements and report those results. If the Appraiser notes any structural issues, the Appraiser must address the nature of the deficiency in the appraisal where physical deficiencies or adverse conditions are reported and require inspection.

The Appraiser must examine the foundation for readily observable evidence of safety or structural deficiencies that may require repair. If a deficiency is noted, the Appraiser must describe the nature of the deficiency and report necessary repairs, alterations or required inspections in the appraisal where physical deficiencies or adverse conditions are reported.

The Appraiser must notify the Mortgagee of the deficiency of MPR or MPS if the basement is not free of dampness, wetness, or obvious structural problems that might affect the health and safety of occupants or the soundness of the Structure

Defective Conditions Requiring Repair The nature and degree of any noted deficiency will determine whether the Appraiser must address the deficiency in the narrative comments area of the report under “condition of the property” or “physical deficiencies” affecting livability or structural soundness.iv.Conditions Requiring Inspection by a Qualified Individual or EntityThe Appraiser must notify the Mortgagee and make the appraisal subject to an inspection by a qualified individual or Entity when the observation reveals evidence of a potential safety, soundness, or security issue beyond the Appraiser’s ability to assess. The Appraiser must report and describe the indication of a particular problem when requiring an inspection of any mechanical system, structural system, or other component requiring a repair.

 

[Tom4value]

I have lot of home improvement, home inspection experience and understand more than most buyers...To some degree I feel that's my job to provide the benefit of my experience to the lender and buyer.

What I'm talking about is a little different than yours because home owners are adding support over the yrs (def necessary because the result is a lot of joist sagging, I have seen it without support being added over the yrs) with out the guidence of a licensed contractor or engineer. It's clearly wrong based on the fact that a licensed professional would not add support or use undersized beams this way. Is saying I'm not a home inspector really enough, for FHA?


My big picture concerns is with FHA being used as subprime lending that these issues could be seen as affecting the value later.

Good for you for gaining home inspection experience. Definitely a good thing. If that experience allows you to see things that may not be right, the client will appreciate that.

I would just be careful not to present yourself as a home inspector. Just disclosing “I am not a home inspector” might not be enough, especially if you provide opinions that should only be made by a home inspector. Make sure you continue to add, “recommend inspection by a professional qualified in these matters”.

I have been doing FHA appraisals for over 27 years and I am still amazed by FHA appraisers, many with as much experience as me, living in fear that FHA wants them to be equivalent to home inspectors. That is simply not true. All through their guidelines (of what to report) include the words, “observe” and “readily apparent” to define your scope of work. You see no evidence of leaks in the attic and no missing or damaged shingles from looking ON THE GROUND, you can reasonably say the roof has 2 years of life left. You do not have to attest to how many years of life left. If the furnace is on and the pipes are warm, heater works. You do not have to attest to percent efficiency. They want you to report any loose wires, uncovered electrical panels and sparks when you turn on switches. You do not have to attest to if the wires are up to code. Your observation of the support beams as you mentioned is enough. FHA expects nothing more from you. You can relax knowing you are doing a good, professional FHA appraisal.

 

[CANative]

Good for you for gaining home inspection experience. Definitely a good thing. If that experience allows you to see things that may not be right, the client will appreciate that.

I would just be careful not to present yourself as a home inspector. Just disclosing “I am not a home inspector” might not be enough, especially if you provide opinions that should only be made by a home inspector. Make sure you continue to add, “recommend inspection by a professional qualified in these matters”.

I have been doing FHA appraisals for over 27 years and I am still amazed by FHA appraisers, many with as much experience as me, living in fear that FHA wants them to be equivalent to home inspectors. That is simply not true. All through their guidelines (of what to report) include the words, “observe” and “readily apparent” to define your scope of work. You see no evidence of leaks in the attic and no missing or damaged shingles from looking ON THE GROUND, you can reasonably say the roof has 2 years of life left. You do not have to attest to how many years of life left. If the furnace is on and the pipes are warm, heater works. You do not have to attest to percent efficiency. They want you to report any loose wires, uncovered electrical panels and sparks when you turn on switches. You do not have to attest to if the wires are up to code. Your observation of the support beams as you mentioned is enough. FHA expects nothing more from you. You can relax knowing you are doing a good, professional FHA appraisal.

The handbook explicitly states the observation is not technical in nature. But as appraisers who make hundreds of property observations a year, we can tell when something is "just not right."

What's the big deal with conditioning the appraisal on inspection, as long as our primary motivation is NOT limiting liability (also in the handbook - or maybe the 4150.2.)

 

[cmitchell]

Sweet. That's where I want to take it and think its appropriate. I'm glad you all feel the same.

 

[CANative]

I'm doing one now (not FHA) that is being eaten alive by wood peckers. They had to cover most of the house with steel plates but there are still some areas where the original redwood siding is starting to look like Bonnie & Clyde made a last stand there.

Private money loan. Condition on inspection? 1) Wood peckers like the sound of pecking and it draws other wood peckers, or 2) Wood peckers peck to find bugs and insects then stick their tongues in the holes they have made to get them out.

 

[Mark K]

Private money loan. Condition on inspection? 1) Wood peckers like the sound of pecking and it draws other wood peckers, or 2) Wood peckers peck to find bugs and insects then stick their tongues in the holes they have made to get them out.

Woodpeckers are also attracted to the 60 hz hum of elec wiring and some light fixtures. I had some peckers drilling holes thru 1" cedar siding trim boards on my det. garage. No bugs anywhere. A couple of holes were the size of golf balls. The were attracted to the buzzing sound of florescent light fixtures mounted on the interior walls. I rerouted the wiring and moved the fixtures....no more peckers.

Patched up their holes and a few more holes from some #8 birdshot, inflicted before I found the problem. Haven't seen any in about 5 years.