FHA policy Unconstitutional

[Lobo Fan]

There are no major lenders that require certified only for anything. HSBC tried it and gave up after just a few weeks. FHA will not get any better work with this move, if they even move forward with it. I doubt that they will do anything at all. They have always interpreted certified to mean anyone approved by a state agency to perform appraisals. They have never differentiated between licensed and certified before.

I am still waiting for the mortagee letter defing any change in poicy. It may never come.

 

[Doug Wegener]

Suit

Good post. Just taking this forum into cosideration: For two years posters here recommended licensed appraisers upgrade before the current requirements. As you point out, this was frequently met with disdain. Now, a bunch of folks who were around and posting during that time are claiming nobody saw changes coming for licensed appraisers.

I also heard multiple CE teachers recommend that anyone still licensed should take the time to upgrade. I'm quite certain that the instructors in my classes weren't the only ones bringing this up.

My favorite rationalization is the implied concept of "those who upgraded before the change are skippies". Yep, the ethical appraisers stood their grounds while skippy went and upgraded.

Doug - I wish you well with your suit. Or are you just complaining and hoping someone else will jump on it for you?

I have no intention of suing. Im in one of the states where it doesnt matter. Im just pointing out that FHA who requires us to follow certain standards in appraisals doesnt follow the standards which they are required to follow.

But if I was a Licensed appraiser in a State where they have not been granted a grace period, I certainly would.

 

[Greg Bell]

Quick , buy some beans and ammo and get me a lawyer..

 

[Bob Ipock]

This has to be the craziest post ever on the forum.

Unconstitutional, class action suits....what a bunch of nonsense.

FHA has different loan limits in various parts on the country. Is that unconstitutional?

American Indians have many different rights and entitlements than others, including but not limited to legal gambling casinos unavailable to others? Is that equal enforcement?

College degrees are required to become a military office, FBI agent, US Marshall etc. Does that mean lesser educated folks need to sue the federal government?

Appraisal qualifications for FRT's, HUD, FHA, the IRS, VA etc are mandated by Congress.
The federal government only dictates appraiser requirements for the loans they insure and/or make.

If you don't care to do federal related appraisals then you only have to meet the requirements (in many cases lesser) of your state board. Each STATE BOARD decides when their licenses renew.....not the FEDERAL government. If states choose to have licenses expire on a daily, monthly or annual basis....it is THEIR decision and it has nothing to do with The Constitution of the United States.
As far as I know, EVERY appraiser had the opportunity to choose between a license or certification as offered by their state. Any appraiser that was unaware of the AQB changes of 01/01/2008 must have been asleep under a rock. There was over THREE YEARS of notice concerning the changes.


H.R. 3221 was introduced 07/30/2007 and it was a full YEAR until it passed and became law 07/30/2008 and then 3 more months the HUD/FHA appraiser issue went into effect.

This law did not simply appear overnight. There was plenty of lead time for appraisers to know what was being set forth in the bill and likely to become law. The content of the bill was public record and was widely discussed my many appraisal organizations and forums.

Why is it appraisers want to file a "class action suit" every time the sun rises? Worse yet, now we are going to claim a violation of a "constitutional right" because higher standards are being required of appraisers?

 

[Bama Bayou]

There are no major lenders that require certified only for anything. HSBC tried it and gave up after just a few weeks. FHA will not get any better work with this move, if they even move forward with it. I doubt that they will do anything at all. They have always interpreted certified to mean anyone approved by a state agency to perform appraisals. They have never differentiated between licensed and certified before.

I am still waiting for the mortagee letter defing any change in poicy. It may never come.

My bold. That is not correct. I work for a couple of major lenders (will top ten by volume do?) and they both started requiring certified only about two years ago. I get many assignments that clearly state "must be completed by a certified appraiser". It makes no difference to them if it is in house, FNMA, FHMC, or FHA. They don't use licensed appraisers.

I also work for many smaller players, both regional and local who have required certified appraisers ever since licensing began.

Certified was defined in the housing bill as certified by the state in which the property is located. There is no wiggle room here for FHA or anyone else to change the definition.

FHA does not want to do this and they may not get better quality work because of it. At this point it does not make any difference. This has been shoved down their throat (along with a bunch of other stuff they don't want) and they are having to deal with it.

 

[Rice Brewer]

My bold. That is not correct. I work for a couple of major lenders (will top ten by volume do?) and they both started requiring certified only about two years ago. I get many assignments that clearly state "must be completed by a certified appraiser". It makes no difference to them if it is in house, FNMA, FHMC, or FHA. They don't use licensed appraisers.

I also work for many smaller players, both regional and local who have required certified appraisers ever since licensing began.

I can attest that the above is 100% true. Most orders I see these days are "certified only".

 

[Bob Ipock]

I have several clients that require that only I do the appraisal.....no other affiliated appraiser, no substitutions, no employees, no contractors etc. I had to go in and interview with some of these folks and they are very picky about who does their appraisals and how they are done.

My forcast is that "certified only" will be the majority of work by the end of 2009 if not sooner. There are more than enough certified appraisers and those on their way to that goal. No shortage in NC.

 

[Stone]

I have no intention of suing. Im in one of the states where it doesnt matter. Im just pointing out that FHA who requires us to follow certain standards in appraisals doesnt follow the standards which they are required to follow.

But if I was a Licensed appraiser in a State where they have not been granted a grace period, I certainly would.

Somehow I'm guessing nobody will take you up on the idea and sue.

 

[Doug Wegener]

FHA loan limits

This has to be the craziest post ever on the forum.

Unconstitutional, class action suits....what a bunch of nonsense.

FHA has different loan limits in various parts on the country. Is that unconstitutional?

American Indians have many different rights and entitlements than others, including but not limited to legal gambling casinos unavailable to others? Is that equal enforcement?

College degrees are required to become a military office, FBI agent, US Marshall etc. Does that mean lesser educated folks need to sue the federal government?

Appraisal qualifications for FRT's, HUD, FHA, the IRS, VA etc are mandated by Congress.
The federal government only dictates appraiser requirements for the loans they insure and/or make.

If you don't care to do federal related appraisals then you only have to meet the requirements (in many cases lesser) of your state board. Each STATE BOARD decides when their licenses renew.....not the FEDERAL government. If states choose to have licenses expire on a daily, monthly or annual basis....it is THEIR decision and it has nothing to do with The Constitution of the United States.
As far as I know, EVERY appraiser had the opportunity to choose between a license or certification as offered by their state. Any appraiser that was unaware of the AQB changes of 01/01/2008 must have been asleep under a rock. There was over THREE YEARS of notice concerning the changes.


H.R. 3221 was introduced 07/30/2007 and it was a full YEAR until it passed and became law 07/30/2008 and then 3 more months the HUD/FHA appraiser issue went into effect.

This law did not simply appear overnight. There was plenty of lead time for appraisers to know what was being set forth in the bill and likely to become law. The content of the bill was public record and was widely discussed my many appraisal organizations and forums.

Why is it appraisers want to file a "class action suit" every time the sun rises? Worse yet, now we are going to claim a violation of a "constitutional right" because higher standards are being required of appraisers?

FHA has different loan limits based on the median in area but that is AUTHORIZED specifically
by statute and there is some sense to it. If the statute said it is the median sales price in California but 50% of the median in New York, it wouldnt be constitutional either.

Americans Indians are recognized as being part of different soverign nations. They have the right to have Casinos because of a Supreme Court Decision. American Indians possess a nation within a nation status. So your analogy doesnt fly.

What if the law said you have to have a college degree to be a FBI agent if your from California but dont if your from New York? That would be an analagous situation.

Personally, I didnt know of the provision in the new law until after it happened. Neither did a lot of people.

 

[Doug Wegener]

Standing

You do realize you are quoting a case where the Supreme Court ruled the people lack standing to sue don't you? Beside the point that the Supreme Court rejected their claim to have standing to sue, it has nothing to do with a waiver of Sovereign Immunity.

"You do realize you are quoting a case where the Supreme Court ruled the people lack standing to sue don't you?"

Yes, I do. But it recaps the legal requirements to have standing. Apprasiers who have
financially impacted would have standing to sue to challenge the constitutionality of
HUD's enforcement. No permission would be needed.

Think about it for a moment. If your arrested and held without being charged do you
have to get the Governments permission before you can go to court and challenge the constitutionality of it. When Roe v. Wade was decided did they have to get the governments permission to challenge the constitutionality.

There is a concept of soverign immunity but when a law is being unconstitutionally applied, you dont have to get permission to challenge it . The rules for standing are noted in the case I cited.