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George Vann - Phoney baloney figure head

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Why doesn't LSI just get an estimate of value from their client and then assign the appraisal accordingly....without telling the appraiser of the estimate. IAW, using their policy, estimates of $950,000 and up should probably go to a CRA. This way LSI did not waste any productive time of a licensed appraiser.
 
The above governs Refi's, HELOCs etc. On purchases - Market Value is the cutoff. Considering under OCC Regs & FDIC Regs for FRTS, the LENDER is tasked with providing a copy of a contract TO the Appraiser - in BOTH circumstances above - the LENDER possesses both the applicants requested LOAN Value AND Contract Price.

I know all of that (hadn't forgotten yet). My question was if it was "explicitly" stated. I don't think it is.

Mike, I agree that it is incumbent on the client to use a selective criteria when possible. LSI's memo states that when there is a sales contract, the decision is easy to make (although I disagree; sale could be at $1,000,000 and market value at $975k: transaction value is $975k). And, if the loan amount is more than $1,000,000 that doesn't mean the value will be in excess of one-million.

IMO, if the lender wants to use some presumptive factors (like, any sale contract over $1,000,000 will have an appraised market value of over $1,000,000; likewise with a loan amount) that's fine with me. It may not be the case. And I did a $3,000,000 condo not too long ago when the guy's loan amount (combined) was less than $500k (he was fuming about the need for an appraisal; I don't blame him!).
So contract price and loan amounts can be used by the lender (if they choose to do so) as a cut-off for assignment qualifications, but that doesn't mean that the appraisal value will actually come in higher or lower than the cut-off.

Like I said, LSI's pronouncement (as I read it) is not in the spirit of HVCC and does not make good sense. If they want to assign an arbitrary cut-off based on purchase price or loan amount, that is their business decision to make.
What is not their business decision to make is to imply to the appraiser that he or she will not get paid for work completed for the appraisal development if that work is necessary in order to determine if an assignment meets the value threshold for the appraiser's license level.

There are too many times when the value of the subject cannot be determined to the benchmark ($1,000,000) without completing some or a large part of the appraisal development process.
LSI cannot have its risk-free pie and eat it too! Their choices should be:
A. Be prepared to pay (the risk) for work necessary to determine if an assignment meets the $1,000,000 benchmark threshold if it is sent to a licensed appraiser.
B. Don't send any assignments to licensed appraisers.

"B" is not practical for a company of LSI's size nor is it necessary.
"A" is a cost of doing business if LSI does not want to initiate a better screening process.
A and B is compliant with USPAP, the regulating agencies, and HVCC.
:shrug:
 
My point is that lenders are responsible for the appraiser and appraisal. They try to foist that responsibility on to the AMC. The lying, cheating, fee stealing, for-profit-only AMC's try to dump their responsilbities on to the appraiser.

So if LSI lets a million dollar transaction appraised by a licensed appraiser get through the system or a loan gets made on a property that a certified initially had not appraised that type previously but figured it out and something bad happens, the lender is not responsible because it was LSI's job and LSI is not responsible because they sent out this broadcast Vann-O-Gram.

It's the appraisers fault.
 
Greg (and Mike)-

I did read the entire Vann-O-Gram. The second part about competency didn't jump out at me; it was the typical blah, blah, blah. I agree it is just a CYA statement.

The regs Mike cites, USPAP which Vann cites, and Fannie regs which Greg cite all address the same issue; competency and license level (and you can cite me on this):

A. The lender is responsible to ensure that the appraisals it uses for its lending decision are completed by a competent appraiser holding the appropriate license level.

B. The appraiser is required to make sure that he/she is competent to accept and complete an assignment; conditions of the assignment (like license level or transaction value) can be set by the client and must be considered by the appraiser.

No one (I think) can argue with the above.
LSI can set up a standard to use as a threshold of license-level requirement.
What it cannot do (IMO) is not pay an appraiser for work completed if that work is necessary (appraisal development) in order to determine if an assignment condition (value threshold-license level necessary) is met when completing the assignment.
It (LSI) solves its problem by only using certified appraisers. That is not a practical solution and does not seem business-smart to me.

So rather than use only certified appraisers, it uses Fannie, USPAP, and client condition-of-assignment rules to argue that the appraiser must be competent by virtue of his/her license level to complete an assignment. Ok, I get that and have no problem with that.

Where the problem begins is when the implication is that an appraiser accepts the assignment with the risk that the appraiser will not get paid if, during the necessary appraisal development process, the value is determined to exceed the client-imposed threshold.
It is the message to the appraiser that "you accept the assignment under these conditions at your risk" which I think is wrong (in a regulatory sense) and is contrary to the spirit of HVCC.
We all run into situations where the assignment was accepted under the belief that the engagement agreement could be met but items discovered during the process created a condition which contravened the condition of the engagement agreement and the process had to be stopped.
The condition which stops the assignment in LSI's case is the value and the reason given is due to license level concerns. Ok, no problem.

But if LSI is going to engage the appraiser to complete an appraisal where one of the conditions of engagement require the value (benchmarked) to be concluded in order to determine if the appraiser can proceed, that requires the appraisal process to start. And, if LSI is engaging appraisers to start the appraisal process, then LSI should pay for the work required for completing that part of the appraisal process. That is my entire point.

Again, it is very simple to me. The decision tree is:
A. Pay appraisers for the work they do when LSI engages them to provide appraisal services.
B. If LSI wants to reduce its payment risk, only employ certified appraisers for certain jobs where a certified appraiser might be required.

"A" must always be.
"B" is a choice.
:new_smile-l:
 
"And, if the loan amount is more than $1,000,000 that doesn't mean the value will be in excess of one-million."

As Appraisers are prohibited from accepting any assignment based on a contingent value (i.e. market value) or whether or not a loan will be granted ( i.e. the outcome of an assignment, or the "cause of the client")-

IMO, for non-purchase assignments the ONLY acceptable, relevant, "live b/w cut off" MUST be the Lenders' decision to assign based upon the LOAN AMOUNT applied for.

As the Lender IS responsible for determining whether or not an assignment is "Complex" - the LENDER must instruct its' AMC Agent to assign the appraisal to a properly Cert or Licensed Appraiser - PRIOR TO the assignment.
 
As the Lender IS responsible for determining whether or not an assignment is "Complex" - the LENDER must instruct its' AMC Agent to assign the appraisal to a properly Cert or Licensed Appraiser - PRIOR TO the assignment.

Mike-

We agree in sum. There is an alternative to the above:
The determination of the complexity will sometimes be made after an assignment is completed. The original appraiser makes the initial determination and the lender makes a determination when deciding whether to rely upon the report given the originator's license level. Obviously, if the lender determines the assignment is complex and the appraiser decides differently, there is a conflict. But, the original appraiser gets paid.
In my hypothetical case, the appraiser may be fully compliant. And, the lender needs to get a new appraisal. Both are following their own rules/regs. The lender is not happy that it needs to pay for another appraisal. I call that a business (or regulatory) risk. It goes with the territory.

In using the loan or sales price as a determinant, that could easily solve the issue.

However, I think it is reasonable to assume that if a large segment of LSI's work is now only going to go to certified appraisers, that is going to create a demand problem for LSI with its certified-contractors and its expenses are going to go up. (I say good: that's how free markets work. :))

What LSI is trying to do (IMO) is to get licensed appraisers to be their filtering mechanism. In other words, LSI will send the appraisal request first to a licensed appraiser; if the licensed appraiser can complete it, no demand change and no interruption of the flow.
If the licensed appraiser cannot complete it, then a certified is necessary; that may increase the demand but not as much as instituting a mandatory cut-off criterion.
I think most licensed appraisers will have no problem filtering the assignments for LSI.
I think all licensed appraisers will have a big problem filtering the assignments for free.
I also think relying on the appraiser to be the filtering mechanism when it comes to a value determination conflicts with the spirit of HVCC.

It is all about money (we all know that). LSI is trying to institute a change in policy that keeps the flow (turn-time) of assignments going out uninterrupted while applying some otherwise sound guidelines (if the assignment is at a value higher than $X, we require a higher license level) in a manner that is least costly to them.
If LSI uses a filtering system that it must directly manage, that will slow down the flow and increase the costs.
If it can use its appraiser-contractors to be the filtering mechanism, it will reduce the potential flow-interruptions and significantly reduce the costs of managing the process.

This entire scenario is a case where economies of scale are lost and become counter-efficient.
For a smaller organization, the process would be much easier to initiate and manage at the assignment-origination point. The costs of doing so would also be manageable.
For organizations the size of LSI, the large numbers create significant hits to the profit line if profit and expense ratios are not maintained. For organizations the size of LSI, it is ratios (expenses, profits, etc.) which get the attention of the decision-makers. For smaller organizations, bottom-line profits are important but quality is also easier to measure.
In LSI's case, it is too large to measure quality other than as a measurement of volume (we are so large therefore we must be doing things right/well). And, its quality standard is based on the lowest common denominator (USPAP minimum & banking regs minimum).
 
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"In using the loan or sales price as a determinant, that could easily solve the issue."

The K.I.S.S. Rule is the basis of the OCC/FDIC REG. Takes common sense to follow it.


"For organizations the size of LSI, the large numbers create significant hits to the profit line if profit and expense ratios are not maintained. For organizations the size of LSI, it is ratios (expenses, profits, etc.) which get the attention of the decision-makers. For smaller organizations, bottom-line profits are important but quality is also easier to measure.
In LSI's case, it is too large to measure quality other than as a measurement of volume (we are so large therefore we must be doing things right/well).



"too big to fail " immediately leaps to mind. Those Lenders and the GSES (and soon FHA after they "redo" the numbers correctly this time)........... should NOT be role models for LSI or ANY AMC or ANY Banking Institution following their "lead".

Per the Regs stated above - the responsibility for determining WHO to assign an appraisal to ...........rests squarely on the LENDER - and in this scenario - its' AGENT which is bound by the exact same Regulations. I suggest it be reminded of that responsibility - daily - by those Federal and State Regulators who are empowered by Law to do so.

Another "bullseye" which lawfully belongs painted on the backs of those who ORDER appraisals.
 
Dangit Denis@! How do you type so much so fast? And without making a bunch of typos. Especially with your HUGE fingers and probably typing on the Dell notebook?
 
Dangit Denis@! How do you type so much so fast? And without making a bunch of typos. Especially with your HUGE fingers and probably typing on the Dell notebook?

When I was really good I could type while holding a Jim Beam & Water! :rof:
 
Moved question to another thread.
 
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