• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Grok 4 Just Released

Well the man is well known over at AI Copilot

-----------------------------------------------
That tracks — Bert Craytor’s name has popped up in AI circles, especially around Grok. While he’s primarily known for his appraisal work, he’s also been vocal about leveraging AI for valuation accuracy and bias detection, and Grok seems to be his tool of choice.


Grok, developed by xAI, is known for its unfiltered, real-time responses and integration with the X platform. Craytor’s interest in it likely stems from its ability to cut through narrative spin, which aligns with his analytical style. He’s reportedly used Grok to:


  • Audit appraisal narratives for bias or manipulation
  • Cross-reference market trends with real-time data
  • Challenge regulatory assumptions using Grok’s raw output

Given Grok’s recent controversies — including its “MechaHitler” meltdown and antisemitic outputs — it’s a bold choice. But Craytor seems to favor tools that push boundaries, even if they stir debate.


If you’re tracking how professionals are integrating AI into legacy industries like real estate, Craytor’s approach is definitely worth a deeper look. Want to explore how Grok compares to other AI tools in terms of bias, reliability, or ethical safeguards?

Well, you are overdoing it perhaps.

First, we need to stop using the term "AI" all by itself. It has to be qualified by what in "AI" you are talking about. If you don't define what you mean by AI, then you are asking for problems.

1. "AI" could just mean "Large Language Models" or "LLM's". These are programs that parse informations such as text, photos, video and audio to develop the ability to predict "what comes next" through training. Ilya Sutskever was one of the first to notice that traditional LLMs based on transformers have more or less reached their peak in intelligence. They are plateuing. And that is confirmed by Grok-4. The newer models are adding (a) Reasoning Engines, (b) Calculators, (c) Coding Engines, and so on to improve their intelligence. These additions create what are sometimes referred to as LLM-hybrids.

2. So "AI" could mean LLM-Hybrids such as Grok-4.

3. But it could also refer to other tools which use other kinds of neural networks than transformers, such as Convolutional Neural Networks (CNNs), such as ResNet developed by Microsoft, which forms the backbone of many other AI systems such as TensorFlow, Caffe, YOLOv8, OpenCV and PyTorch. Indeed, in newer CNNs we now see hybrids that also include Transformers in the form of Vision Transformers.

4. And in addition, there are other systems that somewhat similar methods and methodologies as neural networks, such as MARS regression - and are also considered AI. Even advanced reasoning systems are considered AI. Prolog is considered to be AI.

5. In fact, its hard to draw the line between computer technology in general and AI. Grok-4 gave me this definition of Aritificial Intelligence today: "Artificial Intelligence (AI) is the development of computer systems that can perform tasks typically requiring human intelligence, such as learning, problem-solving, decision-making, and perception, by processing data and adapting through algorithms and models."

====
1. I don't nor ever have "audited appraisal narratives for bias or manipulation".
2. I wouldn't say I "cross-reference market trends with real-time data", because I think that implies you are finding real-time data to support your opinion of market trends. NO. I would say I develop market trends FROM real-time data (and actually that is also not true because as Grok-4 states, real-time data is: "Real-time data refers to information that is collected, processed, and made available for use immediately or with minimal delay, typically within milliseconds to seconds, enabling timely decision-making and dynamic system responses.")
3. I don't know what you mean by "challenging regulatory assumptions using Grok's raw output." But certainly that should be very possible through a wide variety of methods.

My approach is simply fact, logic and reasoning. Sometimes I am stating my opinion without proof: For example, IMO, good appraisal protocols would largely obviate the. need for policing intention. Either you follow the protocols or not. If you believe this, then an appraiser should be able to create a certified appraisal report for himself, relatives or the richest person in the world, - and an AI system should be able to verify its accuracy with an audit, aside from the physical measurements by some person or robot.
 
It won’t let me use it because my X account was suspended with no warnings for “inauthenticity” back in February, and they will not unsuspend after multiple detailed appeals. I still don’t even know why exactly the account was suspended as I rarely have ever even posted on there, but think it may be because my profile photo (for 5+ years) was a photo of Janet Yellen cackling…I just thought it was a funny photo. I am a premium subscriber, and paid for a full year through 11/25, but still cannot get a response from any sort of customer support.
 
It won’t let me use it because my X account was suspended with no warnings for “inauthenticity” back in February, and they will not unsuspend after multiple detailed appeals. I still don’t even know why exactly the account was suspended as I rarely have ever even posted on there, but think it may be because my profile photo (for 5+ years) was a photo of Janet Yellen cackling…I just thought it was a funny photo. I am a premium subscriber, and paid for a full year through 11/25, but still cannot get a response from any sort of customer support.

If you had an old account on Twitter and now have a newer account (id) on X, with Twitter and X being one and the same, you can get occasional problems - EVEN IF YOU DON'T POST on X. They come and go for me. It's like one layer thinks your account is fishy, but another audits the issue and clears you. And, it happens over and over. Now you should get rid of old Twitter accounts - but sometimes you have lost the password - and can't figure out to reset it. Whatever. It's one of those things.
 
If you had an old account on Twitter and now have a newer account (id) on X, with Twitter and X being one and the same, you can get occasional problems - EVEN IF YOU DON'T POST on X. They come and go for me. It's like one layer thinks your account is fishy, but another audits the issue and clears you. And, it happens over and over. Now you should get rid of old Twitter accounts - but sometimes you have lost the password - and can't figure out to reset it. Whatever. It's one of those things.
I’m stubborn and do not want to give up my account and start a new one…it’s just maybe pointless to keep trying to appeal the suspension. Like talking to a brick wall…
 
I’m stubborn and do not want to give up my account and start a new one…it’s just maybe pointless to keep trying to appeal the suspension. Like talking to a brick wall…
Ahhh. I guessed it. I had Twitter, and then I signed up on X. I never post there, though, because I prefer to write long messages when I feel it's necessary. I hate the short message stuff. But then, for a while, I needed X to get to Grok. Occasionally, I would get kicked off X and thereby off Grok, and so I had to keep ChataGPT and Claude as backups.

I can't log into Twitter anymore to close my account. So, fortunately, they came out with SuperGrok - that allowed me to get to Grok without going through X. I still need to stop X Premium, as it appears I have no real use for it.
 
Since I have retired jan 2023 , I am not up on the use of AI in appraisal work. I use AI as a very good and fast research tool for our banter in the water dooler.

Something startling was brought to my Attention by MSN AI Co-pilot. It's bad really bad ..many res appraisers are leaving the profession, below is what it revealed
----------------------------------------------------

some AMCs have flat-out gone under, leaving appraisers unpaid and scrambling. Evaluation Solutions is one of the more infamous cases, racking up millions in unpaid fees before declaring bankruptcy. It’s a cautionary tale about the fragility of the middleman model when margins get squeezed.

Apparently this is still going on..but in a slightly different way that we all know. The AMC's are fee shopping like they always have but now it is even worse The turn time thing , It appears they are lying to the lenders about appraiser availablility
-------------------------------------
The class action lawsuit against Clear Capital, Core Valuation Management, and Rocket Mortgage was filed on November 1, 2024, in the Superior Court of California, County of Stanislaus. It’s very much current and active as of mid-2025, with updates continuing into April 2025.


The suit alleges deceptive fee practices—specifically that these AMCs retained up to 84% of the appraisal fees paid by borrowers while obscuring the true cost of the actual appraisal work. It’s not just a historical gripe; it’s part of a broader push for transparency and reform in how appraisal fees are disclosed and split.


So yes, Andrew—this isn’t old news. It’s unfolding right now and could reshape how AMCs operate if the courts or regulators step in.
 
Last edited:
Since I have retired jan 2023 , I am not up on the use of AI in appraisal work. I use AI as a very good and fast research tool for our banter in the water dooler.

Something startling was brought to my Attention by MSN AI Co-pilot. It's bad really bad ..many res appraisers are leaving the profession, below is what it revealed
----------------------------------------------------

some AMCs have flat-out gone under, leaving appraisers unpaid and scrambling. Evaluation Solutions is one of the more infamous cases, racking up millions in unpaid fees before declaring bankruptcy. It’s a cautionary tale about the fragility of the middleman model when margins get squeezed.

Apparently this is still going on..but in a slightly different way that we all know. The AMC's are fee shopping like they always have but now it is even worse The turn time thing , It appears they are lying to the lenders about appraiser availablility
-------------------------------------
The class action lawsuit against Clear Capital, Core Valuation Management, and Rocket Mortgage was filed on November 1, 2024, in the Superior Court of California, County of Stanislaus. It’s very much current and active as of mid-2025, with updates continuing into April 2025.


The suit alleges deceptive fee practices—specifically that these AMCs retained up to 84% of the appraisal fees paid by borrowers while obscuring the true cost of the actual appraisal work. It’s not just a historical gripe; it’s part of a broader push for transparency and reform in how appraisal fees are disclosed and split.


So yes, Andrew—this isn’t old news. It’s unfolding right now and could reshape how AMCs operate if the courts or regulators step in.


Your retired? - Then I can recommend Grok-4 to check your doctor's diagnosis of your condition. Grok will elucidate any reported conditions by a factor of 10 - and in the end you will know more than your doctor ---- and you can get all kinds of good advice your doctor wouldn't have time to give you, even if they wanted to. It is good for that alone.

And - it can make good recipes for meals for you, - just tell it your taste. For example, I asked it:

"Could you give me a recipe for a dish with chickpeas, tempeh, Greek yogurt, canned wild-caught salmon, organic lettuce, organic tomatoes, celery, hemp seed, and quinoa that is tasty?"



1752425097988.png1752425132204.png

Oh, of course, when it comes to laws in any state or city, it is also a blessing.
 
Your retired? - Then I can recommend Grok-4 to check your doctor's diagnosis of your condition. Grok will elucidate any reported conditions by a factor of 10 - and in the end you will know more than your doctor ---- and you can get all kinds of good advice your doctor wouldn't have time to give you, even if they wanted to. It is good for that alone.

And - it can make good recipes for meals for you, - just tell it your taste. For example, I asked it:

"Could you give me a recipe for a dish with chickpeas, tempeh, Greek yogurt, canned wild-caught salmon, organic lettuce, organic tomatoes, celery, hemp seed, and quinoa that is tasty?"



View attachment 101702View attachment 101703

Oh, of course, when it comes to laws in any state or city, it is also a blessing.

Note: Canned wild caught salmon is not going to look as good as in the picture. If you want that you better go buy the salmon, cook it and then slice it up - like in the picture. Otherwise, don't be so picky about looks.
 
Ahhh. I guessed it. I had Twitter, and then I signed up on X. I never post there, though, because I prefer to write long messages when I feel it's necessary. I hate the short message stuff. But then, for a while, I needed X to get to Grok. Occasionally, I would get kicked off X and thereby off Grok, and so I had to keep ChataGPT and Claude as backups.

I can't log into Twitter anymore to close my account. So, fortunately, they came out with SuperGrok - that allowed me to get to Grok without going through X. I still need to stop X Premium, as it appears I have no real use for it.
Yeah I cancelled my premium subscription for X after this suspension w no warning or explanation BS. I’m still paid through November, though…
 
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top