HELP: how to measure Liveable Square footage

[optionsdave]

I am in the process of buying my house from my ex-Husband and we just had our 2nd appraisal done. This is actually the 4th, we had one done when we bought the house, one done 2 years ago with as application for an equitly line and the third and fourth just 2 weeks ago for the divorce settlement.

Public record and the first 2 appraisals list the house as 2185 sq. ft. No additional renovations have been made.

The third appraisal said the sq. ftge was 2281
and the fourth said it was 2529.

I live in Los Angeles in a pretty hot area and each foot means a lot. I have read and read online and cannot seem to get a straight answer about measuring “Square Feet of Gross Living Area Above Grade”.

One appraiser said from the outside, one said from the inside minus walls, stair openings, etc. I even paid $10 to download a 16 page manual on how to measure put out by the ANSI Z765-2003 But it is vague and states that although there is a method described, it is "voluntary".

I am confused and the discrepency in sq. footage could equate to nearly $200,000.

IS THERE A DEFINITIVE REGULATION AND INDUSTRY STANDARD THAT MUST BE ABIDED BY TO MEASURE A DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN CALIFORNIA? IF SO, WHAT IS IT?

PLEASE HELP...I really need it soon, I am being pressured and am trying my hardest to get the proper information before I pay to much for this.

-Ava D

 

[Charles Witt]

Has the California Board of Real Estate adopted a standard?

 

[BarbaraNJ]

Measuring

The Key words here are "gross" and "above grade"

Gross living area is based on the exterior measurement of the building footprint. Net living area is the total of the interior measurements of all rooms.

The tax record and first three appraisals seem to indicate the actual s.f.. Don't let the difference in the third appraisal bother you too much. It seems that the first two appraisers may have taken the tax figure, while the third may have actually measured. It is not uncommon for the assessor to be "off" a bit. In any case, while the two figures may seem "way out" to you, it is not a huge difference to an appraiser in a single family home. 100 s.f. is more significant in a condo situation.

The last appraisal is way off and should not be relied upon.

Above grade means any floor which is more than 50% above the natural topography. If you are on a slab, this is not an issue.

Get yourself a 100' tape measure and a friend. Hook one end on a corner and start walking to the next corner. Be sure to keep the tape TIGHT, or the measurement will be innacurate. Measure the whole house this way, going from corner to corner and writing down the measurement.

Then do some math. Make sure the total of each long side is equal. Then do the same for the short sides.

Then just multiply length times width. You may have some other areas that you have to calculate separately and add to the main house. And of course, add the second level to the first. If you don't have a "full" second level (dormers, etc) the measurement is a bit more complicated.

Keep us posted

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

For a house you measure around the outside, excluding garages, basements, attics, enclosed patios, etc. Generally anything without access from inside, not the same finish level.

If it's 2 story and there's an area open to below, like a 2 story living room, it only counts once. Steps may or may not be deducted from the second floor. You can argue the space under the steps is usable in addition to the steps, so that's 2. Either way, for a typical staircase the difference is small. But if there's an open area there, it should be counted once only. Simple enough?

Your difference of about 350 SF is enough that it's not just a rounding of measurements issue. It's not like it's a big house either, so someone got it wrong. Get out a tape measure and give it a whirl yourself.

Note, if the house has exterior corners that are not 90 degrees, or at least 45, 0r 135 degrees, other than a bay window or whatever, it can get tricky to measure. A house with multiple weird angles and/or curves on a hill can get darn near impossible to measure.

A difference of $200k for 350 SF seems very high, but maybe if you're in a high end area like the Palisades or Brentwood... Hope this helps. :icon_idea:

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

The tax record and first three appraisals seem to indicate the actual s.f.. Don't let the difference in the third appraisal bother you too much. It seems that the first two appraisers may have taken the tax figure, while the third may have actually measured. It is not uncommon for the assessor to be "off" a bit. In any case, while the two figures may seem "way out" to you, it is not a huge difference to an appraiser in a single family home. 100 s.f. is more significant in a condo situation.

The last appraisal is way off and should not be relied upon.

That is not necessarily true. The fact is that without actually seeing and measuring your home, nobody here can tell you which is correct.

I would suggest you contact a reputable appraiser in your area and get them to measure your home for you and actually watch them do the job. Explain to them that you want an accurate measurement and you should get it. Wouldn't the cost of this service or a new appraisal be worth the lost sleep from a $200,000 difference?

 

[Glen Gerber]

Just hire an appraiser to measure the square footage. We usually charge $100 bucks.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that the appraisal that is most "out of whack", the 4th one that said it was 2529........was the appraisal order by your soon to be ex-husband and his attorney, in an effort to drive up the price of the home to make you pay more.

 

[Michigan CG]

This is sounding very complicated in terms of value based on value per square foot. From what I am reading you think that the square footage will have an unusually large impact on the home value.

If this is the case then hire an SRA appraiser (MAI's are not typically in tune with the residential market as well as SRA's) who is very much in tune with your residential area and is willing to document everything in court testimony.

 

[optionsdave]

you're correct!

Just hire an appraiser to measure the square footage. We usually charge $100 bucks.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that the appraisal that is most "out of whack", the 4th one that said it was 2529........was the appraisal order by your soon to be ex-husband and his attorney, in an effort to drive up the price of the home to make you pay more.

YES, the 4th and wacky sq ftg count was from my ex-s appraiser (cost difference of $350,000!!!)

so, a big issue is the sq ftg. because he is valuing it at approx $515/ft, so it adds up to approx 180k. It is high, but it is W. Hollywood and is closer to $360 but can still add up if not measured correctly.

I am getting a third aprraisal, I just wanted to know if there was a REGULATED CALIFORNIA STANDARD on measuring or if it is subjective to the appraiser/broker/lender/etc., since I have read measure inside rooms only and also read measure outside around the perimeter of the house.

 

[Michigan CG]

YES, the 4th and wacky sq ftg count was from my ex-s appraiser (cost difference of $350,000!!!)

so, a big issue is the sq ftg. because he is valuing it at approx $515/ft, so it adds up to approx 180k. It is high, but it is W. Hollywood and is closer to $360 but can still add up if not measured correctly.

I am getting a third aprraisal, I just wanted to know if there was a REGULATED CALIFORNIA STANDARD on measuring or if it is subjective to the appraiser/broker/lender/etc., since I have read measure inside rooms only and also read measure outside around the perimeter of the house.

NO, NO, NO....Added SF does not adjust the same. For example, if I have a 1,000 SF home and it sold for $100,000 then the value per SF is $100. If I then have a home next door that I am appraising and it is 1,100 SF does that mean that I adjust at $100/SF? No. It is usually a fraction of that 40-60% typically.

It is hard to explain.....see my post #7. Spend some money on an appraiser that is very familiar with divorce work, get an SRA, and get an MAI to review the appraisal of your soon to be ex'es appraisal. You are going to spend some money, but it will be well worth it. DO NOT shop for the best price, you get what you pay for. My fees for divorce start at double my normal fee and we charge by the hour for court testimony.

If you get a very good appraiser who knows how to do your kind of work you will do fine. Get that other appraisal reviewed. Do not have a Realtor do a BPO..spend the $$$.

Good luck.

 

[Ken B]

I am going to take a wild guess regarding the area differences.

Was the property physically measured by the appraisers in the first two instances, or did the appraisers merely use public record data? It is not unusual to do so if an exterior-only inspection is performed.

Did the appraiser with the largest measured area include garage space or perhaps an un-conditioned enclosed porch type improvement in his/her measurement? While this area adds to GBA (gross building area), it should not be included in GLA (gross living area). Un-conditioned space should be considered as a separate line item within the report.

One CAN value a property on GBA, but it is not typically done so in the residential market.

Good luck with it.