HELP: how to measure Liveable Square footage

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Do you have a copy of all the appraisal reports? Is there a sketch in each one of the reports. Lay all four sketches down on the table, compare the dimensions between all four sketches. Are they similar or is there a big discrepancy between the sketches? Just as a start for your own information (I agree you should contract for another appraisal by a competent appraiser very knowledgeable for your area) take a 50' to 100' tap measure and measure the walls that have different dimensions on the sketch. For example one or more sketches might show a length of 45' for a wall and the other one(s) might show a length of 50'.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

does the dwelling have a finished bonus room over attached garage, or detached garage, a finished basement rec room / den (below grade)

does the municipality require a certificate of occupancy for any finished above grade (or below grade) areas beyond the 2100sf.

compare the above grade ROOM count v below grade ROOMS (if any) on all 3 reports.

smells like something was included in GLA in the 3rd and overlooked in the first 2 (possibly failing to address Highest & Best Use which MUST be legally permissible).

 

[James Andreas]

* Public record and the first 2 appraisals list the house as 2185 sq. ft.... third said was 2281, fourth said was 2529. No additional renovations have been made. --- Jo Ann offers sage advise overlay and doublecheck the 4 appraisal sketches . Perhaps the garage was included in the SF? Perhaps you converted the garage (illegal use in WeHo) or have a finished attic (older home) and the recent appraisers counted this as living area? Maybe you have an enclosed patio or breezeway that the appraisers counted as living area? A detached guest house or room/studio/office over garage? Maybe you have a 2 story house and the appraiser(s) estimated the 2nd story SF being the same as the 1st, and failed to subtract offsets, airspace, or balconies? Y

You may find that Appraisals 1, 2 and 3 have the most reasonable measurements. Something in report 4 should jump out and account for the discrepency.

* I am confused and the discrepency in sq. footage could equate to nearly $200,000. --- Homeowners and sellers have embraced the highly misleading habit of equating sales prices to a "$ per SF" factor. This is usually grossly irrelevant and creates the illusion 350 SF may be "worth" $500/SF or more. Refer to your appraisals and see how much the appraiser(s) adjusted "GLA" differences in their Sales Comparison grid. The appraiser's figures may differ, but should be derived from market data.

* IS THERE A DEFINITIVE REGULATION AND INDUSTRY STANDARD THAT MUST BE ABIDED BY TO MEASURE A DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN CALIFORNIA? IF SO, WHAT IS IT? --- No universal, mandatory guideline in California, although for similar assignments I explain the standards, tools, and techniques used to obtain the measurements. The appraiser typically measures the outside of the dwelling, and subtracts "airspace" that lacks a floor on same level. Typically, stairs themselves are counted towards the second floor, and the usual closet or open space beneath counts as 1st floor area. Garages, enclosed patios, rooms over detached garages, balconies, rooms not accessible from inside the dwelling are typically NOT included as living area.

The first 3 square footages are reasonably close (<100SF, and may buyers not even blink at the difference). Simple sleuthing - maybe a few measurements - will reveal the cause of the more troubling 350 +/- SF difference. Or engage an appraiser to provide an additional set of measurements, as several have suggested.

More experienced forumites.... is there any issue with "her" appraiser (#3) consulting "her" regarding, or reviewing "his" appraisal #4 in these circumstances?

OptionsDave's questions/anxiety are mostly over the SF mystery, and perhaps "her" existing appraiser's review would exedite an understanding and release some stress, not withstanding Mr Evans excellent advise to back "your" appraisal (another one if neccesary) with a heavyweight appraiser having plenty of experience in court and with similar disputes.

 

[Liz Mura]

NO, NO, NO....Added SF does not adjust the same. For example, if I have a 1,000 SF home and it sold for $100,000 then the value per SF is $100. If I then have a home next door that I am appraising and it is 1,100 SF does that mean that I adjust at $100/SF? No. It is usually a fraction of that 40-60% typically.

That $515 per square foot is the price INCLUDING everything...the lot, the view, the condition, upgrades, garages, patio, etc, etc, etc. When appraisers determine market value, they must account for all these items SEPARATELY first. The actual added value of the additional square footage only is as Tomothy said, calculated at a FRACTION of that $515 per square foot.

 

[ZZGAMAZZ]

OPTIONSDAVE: If you live anywhere in Southern California I'd be more than willing to meet with you at the property to discuss/review the conundrum. I'm still learning the business but I've conducted approximately 1000 appraisals in Kern, San Diego, LA, Orange, Riverside, SanDiego, and Maricopa counties during the past 4 years--so there's a good chance that I'll be in your neighborhood within the next few weeks regardless of where you live. There is an obvious solution to the issue but it's impossible to resolve without a physical inspection. My fee: Your confidence in the profession. If you're interested pls send me an e-mail with your contact info to zzgamazz@yahoo.com.

p.s. Everything that's been posted on this board is correct. Also just FYI: Approximately 25% of the appraisal work my company performs pertains to marriage dissolution, estate settlement, etc. In my experience this type of assignment is absolutely no different than a mortgage-based assignment in terms of the protocol.

 

[Glen Gerber]

YES, the 4th and wacky sq ftg count was from my ex-s appraiser (cost difference of $350,000!!!)

so, a big issue is the sq ftg. because he is valuing it at approx $515/ft, so it adds up to approx 180k. It is high, but it is W. Hollywood and is closer to $360 but can still add up if not measured correctly.

I am getting a third aprraisal, I just wanted to know if there was a REGULATED CALIFORNIA STANDARD on measuring or if it is subjective to the appraiser/broker/lender/etc., since I have read measure inside rooms only and also read measure outside around the perimeter of the house.

Related to what Kenneth Brown was saying: Do you have an enclosed or screened porch?

Do you have an attached utility room hat is not finished out like the rest of the house?

Do you have a "Florida room" that is not finished out like the rest of the house?

Do you have a detached apartment that is not finished out like the rest of the house?

Do you have a detached storage (or attached)?

My guess is the appraiser coming out with the wacky sf may be trying to include one of these areas as LIVABLE area when it may not meet the criteria.

 

[CANative]

Why pay for a new appraisal that your husband will just contest? Make your J/O husband's appraiser come back out and remeausre. If the appraiser was off by three or four hundred feet make your husband pay for a real appraisal from an appraiser you choose. Go to www.orea.ca.gov and find a local certified (AR) appraiser with a low license number (under 020000).

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Do you have a "Florida room" that is not finished out like the rest of the house?

In California? Heresy! :laugh:

That would be an enclosed patio or a sun room.

If you have an older house with a "California basement" that doesn't count either.