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Help me get this thing off my desk.

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Greg davenport

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Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arkansas
We have the file from Hell that I want to get out the door. The problem is the “home” started life as a 1982 manufactured home. In 1986 the home was bought, and the buyers decided to tear everything down to the studs and rebuild it. m2:
They added 2 x 2’s to the walls to bring them out to a full 2 x 6 width (for better insulation), replaced all the floor decking, while adding 8 ft to one end,(the end with the crawl space access) and 3 ft to the other end. All new floor decking (real plywood, not chip board), wiring, breaker box, plumbing (all copper), cabinets, roof trusses, Hardee board siding, duct work, and composition roof. Along with replacing everything inside the home also.

So I have a stick built 60 x 24 home built around a 50 x 24 manufactured home frame.

If the Home owner had not told me the home started life as a double wide, I would not have known. It did not even have a marriage wall, and you cannot see the metal frame from the crawl space. All you see is wood framing and the duct work for the ac unit.

To top it all off, this is a FHA reverse mortgage appraisal.

And NO Manufactured home sales in the county, or the next one over in the last 12 months.

Any helpful suggestions?
 
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Webbed Feet

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Canada
Mr. Davenport,

CB4 on the 1004... "Inspection proving the issuing of permits and final inspections issued by the J.A. for all prior owner described remodeling of a manufactured home with legal determination letter from the J.A. that the current structure meets or exceeds all local codes for a site built house."

? :confused:

I once read a local MLS listing in my area that somebody had done something similar with a manufactured house and also put a big site built addition on it. The listing broker claimed the J.A. had declared it all to now be a "site built house." ..... I caught this when looking at it as a comp, tossed it out as unsuitable for comp use, and was damn glad it was not my subject.

Good luck!

Webbed.
 

Rice Brewer

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arkansas
"Once a manufactured home, always a manufactured home"

Dollars to doughnuts that the HUD Label / Certification have been removed and / or are covered up.

There is no way in heck that what you describe will go FHA.
 

Caterina Platt

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Mexico
Rice is right. I had a former appraiser wanting to do something similar and I had to call HUD to inquire. Her's was slightly different - the original unit was a pre-HUD mobile. They tore it down to the frame, rebuilt and added over 1000 SF of site built additions, new electrical, plumbing, etc. Had they removed the frame, they'd be OK, but the remainder of the MH killed her options as it was pre-HUD. Didn't matter that there were only small pieces remaining.

In your case, FHA may accept it if classified as a manufactured and on a 1004C, but you'd need HUD cert #'s, and the serial numbers. Finally, when someone builds onto a manufactured home, FHA requires a structural inspection.

It can be done, but you'd need to treat it as the manufactured home it is. That doesn't even begin to address to comparable issues. Can't help you on that part unfortunately.

Now, on the FHA Reverse program, I'm not sure they'll do Manufactured dwellings. I would probably ask your client about that prior to carrying on any further.
 

Greg davenport

Thread Starter
Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arkansas
Mr. Davenport,

CB4 on the 1004... "Inspection proving the issuing of permits and final inspections issued by the J.A. for all prior owner described remodeling of a manufactured home with legal determination letter from the J.A. that the current structure meets or exceeds all local codes for a site built house."
What is the J.A you mention?
The place is out side of city limits, so no permits, and not inspection. Remember all this was done 26 years ago.

The HO did say the "engineer" was here last week and crawled under the house, I'm not sure what that was about.
 

Greg davenport

Thread Starter
Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arkansas
In your case, FHA may accept it if classified as a manufactured and on a 1004C, but you'd need HUD cert #'s, and the serial numbers. Finally, when someone builds onto a manufactured home, FHA requires a structural inspection.
No way to get the numbers to I know of. We asked the HO about any paperwork, and he said he has no.
It can be done, but you'd need to treat it as the manufactured home it is. That doesn't even begin to address to comparable issues. Can't help you on that part unfortunately.

The market will not see this one as MH. Nothing about it is MH, unless you find the frame. If the old man had not told us it was a MH we would have never guessed, even after looking under the place.


Now, on the FHA Reverse program, I'm not sure they'll do Manufactured dwellings. I would probably ask your client about that prior to carrying on any further.
Client told us it was Manufactured when they called about the order.
 

Greg davenport

Thread Starter
Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arkansas
A Few photos

Would you have guessed this was a manufactured if you were doing the appraisal?

these are the front, side, and what should have been the marriage wall
 

Greg davenport

Thread Starter
Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arkansas
Where is the frame?


The water is just a sign of the amount of rain we have gotten in the last few days, plus the snow.
 

Webbed Feet

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Canada
What is the J.A you mention?
The place is out side of city limits, so no permits, and not inspection. Remember all this was done 26 years ago.

The HO did say the "engineer" was here last week and crawled under the house, I'm not sure what that was about.

Mr. Davenport,

At least the old man is honest. Darn, somedays I hate finding borrowers caught up in Catch-22s they don't see coming.

Look, in my locations I work in areas outside of city limits the jurisdictional authority is the county involved. And even in 1982 county permits were required for what you described in every county around me. I would care even more if the owner did not get permits and require proof of them. It is a "so sad, too bad" situation. I am not responsible for the acts of owners that violate local laws. I only concern is myself when I say something has $zzz,zzz market value and sign certifications about it.

It's up to property owners to correct what they should have done and didn't.

Webbed.

P.S. I could care less the water in the crawl is only "recent' over some rain and snow... that is not acceptable. A crawl space should not have standing water in it. .. Ever. I am sure the old man was very proud of the work. So he can equally be proud of the engineering reports needed, permits, and determination from the county if you have such a creature there.
 
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Caterina Platt

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Mexico
The way HUD sees it and the way the market would treat it may be two different things. If your market would treat it as similar site built structures, then so be it. Comps won't be a problem. I'd still probably at least try to find an older sale of a manufactured, preferably with a living area addition.

HUD/FHA, however, in my experience will want it identified as it is - a manufactured.

When you shot the crawl space photo, was it from the side with the addition? If so, that would explain the wood support members and joists. The crawl space access in the photo looks as though it were on the MH portion. :shrug: In your original post, I understood the MH frame to still be there. If it is, the serial number should be stamped on the front cross beam near where the tongue was once attached. When that number is located, you can then go to the ITBS website and they will check their database for the original certification label numbers.
 
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