• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Housing Bubble Bursting?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Condo Flip Website

http://www.condoflip.com/index.asp

Panicky flippers?

For evidence, look no further than the Web site Condoflip.com, which matches buyers and sellers in South Florida. It recently added "condo flip panic buttons" that allows sellers to rapidly cut their prices.

What's more, the canary-in-a-coal-mine condo glut only appears to be getting worse in hot markets such as San Diego and Miami. "From our own observations," reads a report from JMP Securities, "as well as conversations with local brokers and sales people, it is apparent that the Florida new condo market, and in particular Miami, is in a lot of trouble."
 
Message for Roger

rogerwatland said:
Here's some bond trading art for you. I'm not a technical analyst but my friend Mike, that's his world. Strong indication of a new low for 10 year and much to our surprise downward leaning LT rates for 2-3+ years with potential for record inverted yield.

My interpretation: If so, one last refinancing as the hordes of hybrid arms hit first adjustment. Lots of tricky refi appraisals on the horizon, with investor inspired enhanced scrutiny?

You can study for the bond geek exam here: http://www.stomaster.com/stopdfdc.pdf Mike likes this site. It just made me laugh:shrug:
Time will tell how much the yield curve will invert. The data is coming on for more inflation. The stock and bond markets are roiling. Time will tell on these markets too. Next fall will be a good time to recapitulate. However, as we go forward, I expect to see volatile swings in commodities, bonds, and stocks. I expect to see more weakness in the housing markets.

I have been sitting in class since last week. The subject came up about second homes and trends being seen in different regions. Reno-Tahoe area is seeing lots of second homes on market with either for rent signs or for sale signs; all vacant. At the same time, you have new construction going on.

Rancho Cucamonga, San Bernadino, Riverside, Hemet, Temecula are still showing positive increases in house prices with little slowing in sales. Riverside and San Bernadino counties are benefiting from inbound migration of LA and San Diego county.
 
Valuation reform - not gonna happen

TO me, everything in our economy including our own borders and world affairs have declined steadily ...... valuation reform would only be necessary for an economy and a world that much more stable than our is.

I just don't reform occurring in other areas of our economy ...... so .... are little neck of the woods is probably well off the radar screen .....

...values in real estate are increasingly loosing stability as they become more closely tied to currency value fluctuations and commodity prices .... now we got hedge fund housing markets being sold on the exchange today for the first time .......

...these are wishful bandaids .....

... but, one must hold out hope that somehow .... things will all work out ....

..... there are just larger and larger issues .... or larger and larger gears of a clock that need fixing first ......

..... and it starts with global solutions .....
 
Housing slowdown behind rise in inflation

Housing slowdown behind rise in inflation
Perverse methodology could be distorting view of inflation, economists say

By Greg Robb, MarketWatch
Last Update: 7:01 PM ET May 17, 2006


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Beneath the surface of rising core consumer prices over the past two months lies a disturbing trend: The slowing housing market is actually making inflation look worse, economists said.

The housing sector makes up 40% of the consumer price index, which increased 0.6% in April. Core prices, which exclude food and energy but which include shelter costs, rose 0.3%, spooking financial markets with an inflation scare. See full story on April CPI.

Here's how it worked:

In the heady days of the booming housing market, more people were buying homes, and fewer were renting, economists said. Supply and demand kept rents comparatively low, and inflation appeared to be contained -- despite the run-up in home prices. But this virtuous circle is now reversing.

With home prices remaining high and mortgage rates rising, more people are being priced out of the real-estate market and are instead looking to rent. This increased demand is pushing up rents. See related story on housing affordability.

At the same time, the supply of rental properties has been constrained, as many former rental properties have been converted into condominiums, said Mark Vitner, senior economist at Wachovia Corp.

"This dynamic, once it begins, is fairly sticky," said John Ryding, chief U.S. economist at Bear Stearns. "This raises the risk of higher inflation going forward."

Perversely, this slowdown in the market is also pushing up the costs of owning a home, at least, the cost as reported by the government.
The way the government computes the CPI has created a distortion that made inflation look tame when home prices were soaring, but is now making inflation look worse as price gains moderate. It's all because the government measures everyone's housing costs -- renters and homeowners by looking at rents, not at the cost of owning. Read the government's explanation.

Housing prices do not figure directly into the CPI data, Vitner explains. The government recognizes that homes are not only shelter, but assets that add to individuals' wealth, just as stocks and bonds do.

To measure just the value of the shelter services and not the long-term value of owning the asset, the government essentially assumes that homeowners rent their homes to themselves, so it computes an implied rent called "owners' equivalent rent" by asking them how much their house would rent for.

Owners' equivalent rent "is a deeply unsatisfactory measure because it is a price that nobody actually pays," said Jan Hatzius, chief economist for Goldman Sachs.

"The recent slowdown in house price inflation not only fails to hold down the CPI, but it arguably acts to push up measured inflation," Hatzius said. "It's difficult for the Fed to make this argument explicitly, because they never talked much about this distortion when it worked to suppress measured inflation. Nevertheless, they are clearly aware of the distortion and will take it into account when judging the inflation outlook."

Steve Stanley, chief economist at RBS Greenwich Capital, said he expects owners' equivalent rent to increase 0.3% on a steady basis in the coming months.

This will translate into a lot of 0.25% gains in core CPI every month, meaning that the tipping point between a 0.2% increase and a 0.3% gain will be other categories like autos, apparel and hotel costs.

"As we have been saying, core inflation is going to blow through the top of the Fed's comfort zone over the next few months," Stanley said.

One glimmer of hope might be that the Fed's favored measure of inflation is the core personal consumption price data, which is released by the Commerce Department near the end of each month. Housing does not play such a large role in that index, economists said.
 
Randolph,

Very interesting article indeed. Rent increases are forecasted all over. Kiplinger's Personal Finance also indicated that and went so far as to recommend buying residential REITS vs. commercial ones.

This is going to also be interesting for those economists who calimed the absolute signs of a bubble were the GRMs- only they do not use our term much.

But if the rental increases persist, higher rates will become a self fulfillng prophecy.

Brad
 
Brad Ellis said:
Randolph,

Very interesting article indeed. Rent increases are forecasted all over. Kiplinger's Personal Finance also indicated that and went so far as to recommend buying residential REITS vs. commercial ones.

This is going to also be interesting for those economists who calimed the absolute signs of a bubble were the GRMs- only they do not use our term much.

But if the rental increases persist, higher rates will become a self fulfillng prophecy.

Brad
We are at the economic cross road right now. The Fed has to juggle balancing the upward inflation and the downward equity and home prices. The Fed is adamant in fighting inflation or inflation expectation and the inflation has shown its ugly face recently so, they may need to raise the short term rate in June and a month after to control it which means we may have an inverted yield curve then which translate to slower growth in economy and may be recession and decline in consumer spending which means the low current unemployment would be out of window. Many people who have real estate related jobs and many who work for other companies might be laid off and out of work because they are not making profit any more due to slower economy. With high unemployment, rents and housing prices would decline rapidly and most people leave those concentrated area like Southern California to areas with cheaper rents if they cannot find jobs in this area. So, don't rely too much on current rent increase because people cannot afford the current housing prices although they have jobs. This low unemployment may not last too long
Sorry that I am drawing a grim scenario but there is a possibility. What else the Fed can do?
 
The Fed is adamant in fighting inflation or inflation expectation and the inflation has shown its ugly face recently so, they may need to raise the short term rate in

Moh, did you see the Crocodile Dundee movie with the New York setting?

Your inflation comments remind me of the mugger's claim that he has a knife and produces a switch blade in a threatening manner. "Mitch" Dundee's reply was to tell the mugger: "That's not a knife", then brandishing a huge Bowie knife: "Now, that's a knife."

Likewise, the inflation I see isn't all that scary, even compared to a switch blade:)
 
rogerwatland said:
Moh, did you see the Crocodile Dundee movie with the New York setting?

Your inflation comments remind me of the mugger's claim that he has a knife and produces a switch blade in a threatening manner. "Mitch" Dundee's reply was to tell the mugger: "That's not a knife", then brandishing a huge Bowie knife: "Now, that's a knife."

Likewise, the inflation I see isn't all that scary, even compared to a switch blade:)
Roger,
No, I Haven't seen the movie but I hope you are right and your vision is not just a wishful thinking. You know that the Fed is not pleased to see any sign of inflation and try to down play it as much as they can but the Fed reaction to inflation is like the Vampire to garlic. As soon as they smell it, they would react and if the inflation were not serious phenomena that showed up few weeks ago, they would deny it right away. The inflation fighting has been the Fed policy since Volker and they have managed to get by with it so far by their monitory policies. I am not sure it is possible to do it anymore. They have to select either the inflation or recession. Greenspan was the Master to play it right but he didn’t leave any room for new chairman to play. May be they need to call Greenspan back for an advice.
 
If only we could sort out the elements of inflation with more certainty.

I'm of the opinion that when the PC operating system finally became more stable, when people tired of playing PC video games at work and when Microsoft came up with administrative controls so workers couldn't dink around as much, that led to a good productivity boost which negates inflation.

I should graph the demise of video games in office and the latter phenomenon of recreational web surfing and control. I bet it tracks with productivity gains. I'm sure NAFTA has helped. Trade, in general, has really helped far more than it has hurt.

The Fed isn't as important as it loves to claim and could be replaced with a more effective system. Like licensing and title 11, however, it has become entrenched and "blessed with bureaucratic immortality", to borrow a phrase from Milton Friedman.
 
rogerwatland said:
If only we could sort out the elements of inflation with more certainty.

I'm of the opinion that when the PC operating system finally became more stable, when people tired of playing PC video games at work and when Microsoft came up with administrative controls so workers couldn't dink around as much, that led to a good productivity boost which negates inflation.

I should graph the demise of video games in office and the latter phenomenon of recreational web surfing and control. I bet it tracks with productivity gains. I'm sure NAFTA has helped. Trade, in general, has really helped far more than it has hurt.

The Fed isn't as important as it loves to claim and could be replaced with a more effective system. Like licensing and title 11, however, it has become entrenched and "blessed with bureaucratic immortality", to borrow a phrase from Milton Friedman.
Roger,
I am not sure whether you are serious or joking but it seems more joking to blame the video gaming by workers for lack of productivity. I never heard that a mass video game playing is going on in offices, factories and companies. I am sure all of them have managers, supervisors and controllers. I don’t think there is a lack of production in US. There is a lack of internation market competition for US products because those who send us their products are no spenders of our products and the lowering the dollar doesn’t help it. Regarding the Nafta and free trade to be considered a cure for our inflation is a false assumption. It did work in last few years that we didn’t have that much current account deficit, it is not going to work any more because countries like China are under pressure to increase their workers wage and they are getting self sufficient of consuming their own regional products so they don’t need to send us cheap items. In addition, we are under pressure from protectionist to put import tariff on their products that would cost them more to send them here and have to increase their prices.
Regarding the Fed Role in the economy, there is no doubt the Fed is in control of monitory policy, which manages the inflation, recession and economic growth and for that it has followed the Milton Friedman theory on the letter. Should they depart from monitorist policy and follow gold standard system to get the economy back to sound system is a big question and nobody knows if it is possible or not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top