• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Housing Bubble Bursting?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Randolph Kinney said:
Steve, what puzzles me is what is reported by my MLS versus what gets reported by NAR or agencies....

...Your market seems to be very stable, no matter what happens.
Yes, that puzzles me, too... sometimes.

It has been for most of the 90's and into this new millinium. But there were some pretty bad downs during the stagflation (probably not as bad as some places, though).

It partly comes from being a very conservative area. It's hard to find a Democrat here, and I might be the only Libertarian... at least the only one in my precinct.

So, the preferrence is for slow, but sustainable growth. I think they've passed up some good opportunities along the way because of it. But being risk averse has its advantages sometimes.

Anyway, the economy here is very diverse, but could use some additional strength in the high-paying category. We routinely come in first or second on lowest cost housing for all MSA's, but usually come in near the bottom for wages as well. Anyway, no economy can withstand the hit of a full scale recession very well, and we've already proven to ourselves that stagflation is bad for real estate... so, we'll see what happens next.
 
Puzzle masters

Steve Owen said:
Yes, that puzzles me, too... sometimes.


It partly comes from being a very conservative area. It's hard to find a Democrat here, and I might be the only Libertarian... at least the only one in my precinct.

QUOTE]

Middle America, Middle Earth, 33% of people are still tied to an old economic system before the days of the Egyptians; puzzle masters.
 
Yertle's bubble

Rocket men and Yertle the Turtle:

I was reading Yertle the Turtle to my 5 month old today; fascinating story about a turtle that built a tower of turtles under him so that he could be up higher than anything else and gloat at his accomplishment of being king of all around him. Eventually, the turtles on the bottom of the pile got tired of the strain and Yertle ended up back on the ground in the mud.

High places make me think about other towers that have been built in the past towards the sky whose strain and seat came from its human toils below. The tower of Babel, the tower of Pisa, the Statue of Liberty, the Twin Towers ….. it goes on and on …… all the way to the present day rocket men who desire to build hotels in space.

Are those rocket men like Yertle?
 
M1,M2,M3 and velocity and hyper-inflation

Prima facia evidence that agreements of sale have a non-existent "meeting of the minds" .... in any historical, fundamental or conventional sense ....

simply put ....... hyper-inflation in any economy occurs when parties no longer transact based on self-interest but, rather the dictates of a state run banking sytem which artificially sets price through any means necessary.

A creshendo of hyper-inflation followed by the dflating effect of shrinking purchasing power ....

global paralysis through global currency weakness
 
I can't remember now. Was it Otis or Bobby Bucks that desires to be the author of post 1000 on this thread?
 
Lets save it for Austin, Otis or Terrel, and Mr. Bucks - the pig farmer
 
A 'Loud Pop' Is Coming

A 'Loud Pop' Is Coming,
But Mr. Heebner Sees Harm Limited to Inflated Regions
By GREGORY ZUCKERMAN
July 5, 2006; Page R1

The real-estate market shows signs of slowing. Is there deeper weakness ahead? Fewer questions are more important to mutual-fund investors. Many own funds with real-estate-related shares -- not to mention homes and vacation properties. And many economists believe a slowdown of the housing market could hurt the overall economy.

To get a lay of the land, we tracked down Kenneth Heebner, who since 1994 has managed the $1.2 billion CGM Realty Fund. It has the best 10-year record of all real-estate-focused mutual funds, according to fund tracker Lipper Inc., up an average of nearly 22% a year during the past decade, well more than double the broader market. The fund also has one of the best one-year records, up 32% through June 30.

THE JOURNAL REPORT

See fund performance by sector, plus the complete Mutual Funds Quarterly Review.Mr. Heebner, 65 years old, is better positioned than many real-estate fund managers to speak about prospects for the housing sector. His fund has viewed its mission more broadly than most rivals, so he isn't shy about ditching real-estate stocks. Among big holdings for CGM Realty during the past year: coal-company stocks, a hot category that qualifies in Mr. Heebner's view because coal companies own a lot of land. He also runs three other mutual funds, including CGM Focus Fund, so he spends a lot of time looking beyond houses and hotels to other parts of the economy. These three funds have among the best five-year records in their categories.

Here is our conversation:

WSJ: How is the housing market?

Mr. Heebner: A significant decline in prices is coming. A huge buildup of inventories is taking place, and then we're going to see a major [retrenchment] in hot markets in California, Arizona, Florida and up the East Coast. These markets could fall 50% from their peaks.


WSJ: What has you so concerned?

Mr. Heebner: I'm worried that more people will default on their mortgages. Risky mortgages such as interest-only and pay-option adjustable-rate mortgages require no principal amortization and in some cases payment of only a fraction of the interest due, have been widely used in the last two years. Some people got 100% financing for their homes. It made the tech bubble look like a picnic. When housing is going up rapidly and you can buy far more than your income can support, some people are eager to make big profits by extending themselves financially.

As housing prices fall more people will be under water, and these people are just going to walk away from their homes. They are going to say, 'I'm outta here.' You're going to see increasing foreclosures over the next several years. As [home] prices come down, it will create a difficult environment for home builders.

WSJ: What data have you most worried?

Mr. Heebner: We're seeing a huge increase in inventories of unsold homes. The role of incentives in selling a home is increasing so the weakness doesn't show up immediately in list prices. Large price declines will follow in inflated markets.

TAKING QUESTIONS



PODCAST: Journal reporter Gregory Zuckerman interviews Ken Heebner of CGM Realty Fund to discuss investing in the real-estate market. Listen now or subscribe, plus see all the Journal's podcasts.WSJ: More than 25% of homeowners don't have a home mortgage because they own their property outright. Won't this keep problems in check?

Mr. Heebner: Most people won't have problems and much of the country will be fine. I don't think anything will go wrong in places like Texas, Iowa City or Minneapolis. ... But prices are being set by a minority of participants in the market, [those who have borrowed the most and used the most aggressive types of mortgages]. There will be a loud pop in inflated markets. It's where prices were artificially inflated by people buying houses with risky mortgages that we'll see problems. ... The person who feels the pinch is the person who used an aggressive mortgage and is struggling to meet the mortgage payments.

WSJ: Given the big size of some of the markets that you see as inflated, won't the regional 'pops' reverberate throughout the economy?

Mr. Heebner: The pops will reduce the growth rate of the economy, but they won't precipitate a downturn. The economy only turns down when the Federal Reserve takes aggressive action to cause a downturn. I think the current pattern of higher interest rates reflects a decision to normalize rates after taking them to abnormally low levels to stave off potential deflation. When the extent of the housing slowdown becomes apparent, I think the Fed will pause, rather than take rates to a level that threatens an economic downturn. The only real threat to the economy is an overly aggressive Fed, and not a downturn in the housing market, which won't by itself push the economy down. In fact, it provides an insurance policy against the Fed becoming overly aggressive.

WSJ: Do you agree with economists who have described the individual consumer as a linchpin of the economy during the past few years, using refinancings to fuel the expansion?

Mr. Heebner: Borrowing against home equity has been overrated as a source of economic stimulus. While it has been a factor in the economic expansion, I don't think it's been the most important factor.

WSJ: How are you allocating investments in your real-estate fund?

Mr. Heebner: We define real estate broadly; it includes mining companies, because of the land they use. Today we have about 25% of the fund in mining stocks. The stocks are attractive, but I also see significant opportunity in real-estate investment trusts, which comprise 69% of the portfolio. We also have 6% in commercial real-estate brokers.

WSJ: What areas of real estate are you most excited about?

Mr. Heebner: We're investing in office and apartment REITs, like Archstone-Smith Trust, Essex Property Trust Inc., SL Green Realty Corp. and AvalonBay Communities Inc. Apartment rents are going higher [as rising interest rates makes homes less affordable for many consumers, and a strong economy encourages rent increases].

In many parts of the country, like Texas, when demand goes up, companies can do more building of rental apartments. But the greatest supply constraints are in parts of the Northeast and California. And that's where the apartment REITs we own are focused.

In the office sector we like Vornado Realty Trust as well as SL Green, which have great management and are in Manhattan, one of the most supply-constrained areas in the country.

WSJ: Many apartment-REIT stocks already have climbed. Aren't rent increases baked into the stock price?

Mr. Heebner: Yes, people assume rents are going up, but the question is the magnitude of the increases. Consensus appears to assume 5% increases in the next year but I think the increases will be a lot more than that. Demand will grow, but supply of apartments won't because construction costs are increasing significantly and supply constraints will limit new developments in California and parts of the Northeast.

WSJ: What's your take on home-builder stocks?

Mr. Heebner: At the end of 2001 we bought home builders. These stocks were trading at six times earnings, and people were worried that the stocks would be hurt by an economic downturn. I became positive when I saw the growth potential created by rising demand and market share gain by the public builders. But if 20% of purchases are for investment purposes and so many borrowers are subprime, that says to me trouble is coming. We started cutting back on home-builder shares at the end of the fourth quarter of 2004 and eliminated them during the first six months of 2005.

WSJ: Why are you buying hotel REITs?

Mr. Heebner: After the 9/11 attacks, hotel construction fell, and it has only slightly recovered. But demand is growing, as the global economy strengthens and leisure travel is strong, as is business travel. You'll see more tourism with the dollar weaker. During the next several years, there will be an inadequate supply of hotels and that makes for a healthy environment for REITs. We like Host Hotels & Resorts, LaSalle Hotel Properties and FelCor Lodging Trust.

WSJ: What sectors are you favoring in your other funds?

Mr. Heebner: Energy and steel. I believe that the global supply and demand imbalance for crude oil remains in place. Robust global demand for steel is outrunning the ability of steel producers to meet demand.

WSJ: Your 10-year record includes a tough period. In 1998, the real-estate fund lost 21%, worse than the REIT index and much worse that the big gains of the broader market that year. What did that period teach you?

Mr. Heebner: In 1998 I had an aggressive position in hotel REITs. ... I anticipated that more companies would use a REIT structure to shield their earnings from taxes. But Congress changed the law, and I didn't see it coming. The market was smarter than I was. The lesson is that, if I see legislative activity that could be negative, I should pay more attention.

WSJ: How much should ordinary individual investors have in real-estate stocks and funds, given they probably own their homes?

Mr. Heebner: Commercial real estate has a totally different outlook than residential housing, [so commercial REITs] represent diversification. ... I own all the funds I manage and I own the condo I live in.
 
Rents Rise as Apartment Market Is Squeezed

Rents Rise as Apartment Market Is Squeezed
By Kirstin Downey
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 5, 2006; A01
The apartment market in the Washington area has become one of the tightest in the country, and rents are rising briskly as some affluent residents decide to rent rather than buy in what they fear is an inflated real estate market.
The surge of well-to-do new renters is attracting developers, and at least 4,000 units that had been planned as condos will instead be leased as rentals over the next two years, according to a new analysis by Delta Associates, an Alexandria real estate information company.
Among the renters is Randell Rogers, 40, a systems engineer who earns $127,000 a year and recently sold a house. The housing-sale slowdown and sky-high prices have made him wary of buying again, and he is renting a two-bedroom townhouse in Herndon for $1,400 a month, about half of what he thinks he would pay each month if he bought a similar townhouse for about $450,000.
"It makes more sense to rent this year while values keep going down," Rogers said. "Even with the tax break, it doesn't make sense for me. It's just not reasonable to buy."
Other affluent families are doing the same. Laura Holliday, 33, and her husband, Jason, 34, both analysts for the federal government, tired of the chores associated with homeownership, the heavy mortgage payments and the hassle of commuting each day to the District from the Mount Vernon area of Alexandria. They sold their house in July 2005 and moved to a townhouse in the Clarendon area of Arlington, where they can commute to work by Metro and have more time to spend with their two young children.
"We probably won't rent forever," Holliday said, "but for now, we are definitely enjoying renting."
As they and others lease instead of buy, rents have risen 7 percent in the past year, according to a new analysis by Delta Associates. In suburban Maryland, rents for luxury high-rise apartments rose 11 percent.
About 6,500 additional renters leased units in the past year, up from about 4,400 in the previous year, according to Delta Associates. The Washington area has one of the lowest apartment vacancy rates in the nation, down to 1.7 from 2.4 percent a year ago, compared with a national average of 5.7 percent.
The rent increases are confounding industry expectations that rents would fall because of the huge number of new condominiums, many of which were sold to investors who have put them up for rent. Experts say prices would rise even faster without the additional condos.
Even so, rents are expected to rise 5 to 9 percent annually over the next few years, said economist Gregory H. Leisch, chief executive of Delta Associates.
More than a half-dozen projects have recently shifted from proposed condo complexes to rental apartments. Delta Associates projects about 2,000 units are being shifted or will remain as rentals this year, with another 2,000 going that route next year.
"Every large developer I know is working on a project that was expected to be condo -- and that they are now taking back to apartments," said Mark Coletta, regional partner of Fairfield Residential LLC, which is building about a dozen projects in the Washington area. "That's what everyone is doing."
Among the projects that have recently made the switch to rental or will remain rental are a 19-unit building at 1325 N. Pierce St. in Arlington; the 1901 West building in Annapolis, with 282 units; the Park Center complex in Alexandria, with 574 units; the Bristol at Fair Chase in Fair Oaks, with 392 units; and a 415-unit complex in Baileys Crossroads scheduled to break ground in the fall.
The going-rental option is under consideration by the developers of a 183-unit complex at the site of the old National Institute of Dry Cleaning, and a 325-unit project called Cameron House, both in Silver Spring.
Stephen Muller, president of Union Realty Partners Inc., which is building the 183-unit project, said he began considering the shift after a well-heeled family rented a single-family house he owns, saying they did not think it was a wise time to buy. "I think it's frankly smart," he said.
Coletta said he was influenced by the performance of Fairfield's condo projects in Fair Oaks, Herndon and Germantown.
"All are doing fine, but we've clearly see fatigue on the part of the consumer," Coletta said. "Traffic has dropped off, contracts have slowly declined. You see the writing on the wall at the same time apartment fundamentals are improving. It makes the business decision a pretty easy one."
Instead of converting the Virginia Commons complex in Dumfries into condos, its owners have decided to spend "several million dollars" upgrading the place and renting it to people who make $70,000 to $90,000 a year -- too much to qualify for housing assistance but too little to be able to afford to buy a home.
"Every owner nowadays goes through the thinking, 'Should I go condo, cash out and call it a day?' " said Kenneth Shiu, manager of Realco Millennium LLC, which owns Virginia Commons. "We started thinking, 'Why not make ourselves nicer and reposition the place?' "
Developers who proceed with condo plans face a flood of competitors. There are some 26,600 condo units being marketed in the Washington region, according to Delta Associates, up from about 23,100 in the same month last year. But there are some 48,000 units moving toward construction in a market where prices, though not falling, have already gone flat.
Leisch said that condo developers increase the base price of units so existing owners and new buyers feel confident they are buying into a rising market, but that then they offer concessions -- better appliances and upgrades, picking up part of the closing cost -- so new buyers think they are getting a good deal.
"It's the old shell game," Leisch said. "You increase the price to reduce the price so after all that nonsense, the price is unchanged. Car dealers do it all the time."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070400969_pf.html
 
The rising cake of risk coefficients alert the quorum

A societal growth of systemic misunderstandings about financial mathematical assumptions give rise to perpetual market value estimations which reflect, “an incoherence” to the reality of “opportunity cost inertia”. As with all mathematics, mathematicians are nothing more than estimators of the “happenings of financial energy”. Sooner or later the gravitational forces become more and more apparent as an imbalances in financial system assumptions rise within the cake of the “economic/business theater”.
 
Steve Owen said:
Anyway, the economy here is very diverse, but could use some additional strength in the high-paying category. We routinely come in first or second on lowest cost housing for all MSA's, but usually come in near the bottom for wages as well. Anyway, no economy can withstand the hit of a full scale recession very well, and we've already proven to ourselves that stagflation is bad for real estate... so, we'll see what happens next.
I just got back from a week vacation in the White Mountains of Arizona. This area is defined by Show Low, Lakeside, Pinetop and Greer. The altitude is greater than 6000 feet, pine trees with alpine meadows. These are small towns however, this area is the second home market for people who live in the desert. The number of new golf courses, new PUDs, condos, etc. has exploded. Over the 4th of July holiday week, the main highway was bumper to bumper. The traffic shrinks back by 70% afterward. There are concessions up the wazoo from the builders. Lots of listings everywhere. There is a big investor contingent there too. They rent out mainly for the winter ski season.

If and when a recession develops, this area will go POP!

Here in north county San Diego, there are signs of strain in the housing market. Moh has posted an article from the WSJ that captures the essence of what is happening.

Interesting to see how others see their markets.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top