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HVCC - Copy of Appraisal

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Would this be the same public that buys bottled water,which is worse than a lot of tap water, for higher prices than gasoline was? And then complains about the high cost of fuel! :huh:


Good luck with that. :rof:

Well, maybe not, but it has been my experience that educated folk rarely make uninformed decisions. Should we should grasp the opportunity to educate the public, or should we hide under rocks for shame?!
 
Borrower sees one page AVM prior to closing then sees $450 charge on HUD statement for appraisal. Borrower gets bent out of shape and refuses to pay $450 for one page report. There are positives to this.
 
OK – here are some quotes from the various posts. I’ve added bold here and there and a summary comment of my own at the end.

(Langley)
“One possible argument against that "prior to closing" part is for the increased potential for borrowers to claim they "used" the report to make a borrowing decision. Right now they only hear about the opinion of value prior to closing. But if they had a copy of the report before closing they could claim they "used" any/all parts of the report for making their decision.”

(Ellis)
If they get it before the loan closes then it will likely be deemed that they relied on it and the appraiser could be on the hook if it is not supportable.

(Carnivore)
Does this also raise the liability of the BPO RE Agent and the AVM company? I sure hope so!! I love to see an agent or two taken out in court!! It will end this nonsense. FTR, I have absolutely no problem with this requirement. As a matter of fact I will be uncomprimising about this along with regulating AMC's as if they are appraisers.

(Webbed)
I fear not! .... I am completely happy to let those opting to work to do a 1004 for $175 in 24 hours get completely sued right out this industry as far as I am concerned... I only want all, and any, AVM or BPOs used to have to be given in full to the borrower too!

(Jenkins)
“Sadly, part of this problem is the public, for the most part, are woefully uneducated in real estate and how the process works. Coupled with the fact this is a very emotional purchase and many people rely on the advice of the professionals involved.

“Should we should grasp the opportunity to educate the public, or should we hide under rocks for shame?!”

(nauthead)
Borrower sees one page AVM prior to closing then sees $450 charge on HUD statement for appraisal. Borrower gets bent out of shape and refuses to pay $450 for one page report. There are positives to this.”

My Summary Comment

There most definitely are positives to this. And we should be strongly considering them. Let's start thinking outside of the box, shall we?

Making sure the valuation product gets to the borrower before the loan closes is very important and we should support this 100%. We need to help establish the new paradigm that the borrower is making a financial decision based on the valuation products offered/suggested/required and/or made available to them by the mortgage lender.

The providers of those valuation products, appraisers included, should be held accountable for the accuracy of their products – they will. We must set aside the old paradigm that the valuation product(s) ordered/required are intended solely to protect the lender. In order to force a shift from lenders using what is required to make the deal fly to the use of a product that also recognizes the needs of the borrower (hopefully a full-fee, well-written appraisal) we must also accept the liability that goes along with our products.

Let the lender order an AVM or BPO when a 1004 is appropriate for the subject property and borrower. Let the AMC appraiser concern himself with filling out a form and providing yesterday service. Let the AMCs continue to seek out the appraisers who will accept the lowest fees. And don’t forget ZAIO either. Make the providers of these products accoutable to the borrower as well as the lender and they will end up in court. And when they do, this nonsense will come to an end.

Thanks for all your comments.
MP
 
<..... snip.... >

My Summary Comment

<.... snip....>
The providers of those valuation products, appraisers included, should be held accountable for the XXXXXXXXX (Credibility) of their products –

<....... snip......>


Thanks for all your comments.
MP

Mr. Phillips,

Just don't use Fannie words when you should be using USPAP words, ok? ... "Accurate" does not work with the definition of market value that uses "The most probable price." "Accurate" and "Probable" do not work together in one appraisal report in harmony.

Webbed.
 
Mr. Phillips,

Just don't use Fannie words when you should be using USPAP words, ok? ... "Accurate" does not work with the definition of market value that uses "The most probable price." "Accurate" and "Probable" do not work together in one appraisal report in harmony.

Webbed.

Hey Duck –

Thank you!!! You certainly have illuminated the terrain in which we are presently engaged.

MP
 
If as an appraiser, you produce a credible, supported, and USPAP compliant appraisal, why are you concerned who reads it and what decisions are based on it?
 
If as an appraiser, you produce a credible, supported, and USPAP compliant appraisal, why are you concerned who reads it and what decisions are based on it?


Are you saying the world is our master?
 
Are you saying the world is our master?


Actually I believe Dutchman is saying quite the opposite and he is correct. An appraiser should do his/her job and not worry about the consequences if the report is done correctly.
 
If as an appraiser, you produce a credible, supported, and USPAP compliant appraisal, why are you concerned who reads it and what decisions are based on it?

First of all I agree, 100% with the point you are trying to make.

But I believe there is only one legitimate answer to your question, which is: as a businessman I consider it legitimate practice for me to attempt to limit my liability (legally, of course) to the extent the users of my work (the public/society) allow me to limit that liability.

Restated, if I can come up with an argument that no one other than the client has the right to rely on my work, and I can convince the public/society to accept that argument, then that is exactly what I'm going to do.

I believe, with no reservations, that the above is exactly where the authors of USPAP have taken us. Intended use, intended user, scope of work, and confidentiality are all concepts that have assisted appraisers in escaping the consequences of their actions. I have said many times that many appraisers hide behind the client; they roll the dice, hope the loan never goes into foreclosure and pray the appraisal never sees the light of day.

But the courts are a higher authority. In the early decades of the public accounting profession their equivalent of our TAF insisted the accountant rendering an opinion on financial statements in accordance with GAAP had no responsibility to detect accounting fraud. To make a long story short, the courts time and time again said "oh yes you do." Unfortunately the appraisal profession is in its infancy.

As an appraisal professional, I believe anyone should be able to rely on my work, as long as my work is communicated to them in its entirity, regardless of the intended use.

Thanks for raising the question.

MP
 
Mike,

Thank you for amplifying my statements. I agree with almost all of your points except for one. If I am a professional and proud of the work I do (and I am), I want the public to see what a professional appraisal report looks like. Please take my report around to several lenders, an attorney or two and maybe even a MB. I can use all the advertising. If the report is credible and stands up on its own, where am I increasing the liability? Yeah, I might get a disgruntled homeowner or two that want to sue but there is such a thing as recovery of attorney fees if a suit is found to be without merit.
Brad,
If you think that the more people that see an appraisal, the higher the liability, you have little faith in the appraisal itself. I am also of the opinion that the borrower should get a copy of all appraisals including reviews, AVM, BPO, Zillow and Zaio and whatever else has been ordered by the lender along with a statement of charges including the AMC's cut.

Mike writes:
I believe, with no reservations, that the above is exactly where the authors of USPAP have taken us. Intended use, intended user, scope of work, and confidentiality are all concepts that have assisted appraisers in escaping the consequences of their actions. I have said many times that many appraisers hide behind the client; they roll the dice, hope the loan never goes into foreclosure and pray the appraisal never sees the light of day.

If that ain't part of how skippy does business, I'll give you a USPAP compliant "free comp check"
 
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