HVCC - Copy of Appraisal

[Dutchman]

Delete

Double post

 

[Carnivore]

Mike,

Thank you for amplifying my statements. ...

If the report is credible and stands up on its own, where am I increasing the liability? Yeah, I might get a disgruntled homeowner or two that want to sue but there is such a thing as recovery of attorney fees if a suit is found to be without merit.

These are incredibly naive statements. I suggest you give some thought to the idea that a mistake you make may not harm one party, but may harm another. Please spare me, if you think you have never made a mistake in one of your appraisal reports.

Brad,
If you think that the more people that see an appraisal, the higher the liability, you have little faith in the appraisal itself.

I am with Brad on this one. Maybe him and I and a significant crowd of others at this forum understand the US Legal System and its weaknesses and pitfalls. A jury once awarded a woman 3 million because she suffered burns from spilling hot coffee in her lap after going through a Mickey D drive thru.

If that ain't part of how skippy does business, I'll give you a USPAP compliant "free comp check"

You know I thought about this statement for awhile to try and understand your point. There are two ways that can get appraisers in hot water over their appraisal process and subsequent reports. This would involve errors of ommission and acts of commission. Skippy does one or both. Every now and then a good intentioned appraiser makes a mis-step.

So try and imagine being a witness in court for a Distribution of Marital Asset trial. Try and imagine your URAR 1004 ver 3/05 being used as evidence for the defendent. How do you recover that lost day of productivity because you were a witness of fact, not as an expert witness.

Maybe you, Pittsburgh Pete can explain the rational for you two not having E&O Insurance. I personally would like to know how saving a $600 dollar per year insurance premium is good enough reason to place all your personal assets up for grabs. Did you base this decision on the simple fact that your reports can stand any scrutiny, because you said so!

 

[DTB]

Maybe you, Pittsburgh Pete can explain the rational for you two not having E&O Insurance. I personally would like to know how saving a $600 dollar per year insurance premium is good enough reason to place all your personal assets up for grabs. Did you base this decision on the simple fact that your reports can stand any scrutiny, because you said so!

May I be so bold as to point out that E&O may not be the end all in asset protection? Otherwise I'm in full agreement with your post.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

These are incredibly naive statements. I suggest you give some thought to the idea that a mistake you make may not harm one party, but may harm another. Please spare me, if you think you have never made a mistake in one of your appraisal reports.



I am with Brad on this one. Maybe him and I and a significant crowd of others at this forum understand the US Legal System and its weaknesses and pitfalls. A jury once awarded a woman 3 million because she suffered burns from spilling hot coffee in her lap after going through a Mickey D drive thru.





You know I thought about this statement for awhile to try and understand your point. There are two ways that can get appraisers in hot water over their appraisal process and subsequent reports. This would involve errors of ommission and acts of commission. Skippy does one or both. Every now and then a good intentioned appraiser makes a mis-step.

So try and imagine being a witness in court for a Distribution of Marital Asset trial. Try and imagine your URAR 1004 ver 3/05 being used as evidence for the defendent. How do you recover that lost day of productivity because you were a witness of fact, not as an expert witness.

Maybe you, Pittsburgh Pete can explain the rational for you two not having E&O Insurance. I personally would like to know how saving a $600 dollar per year insurance premium is good enough reason to place all your personal assets up for grabs. Did you base this decision on the simple fact that your reports can stand any scrutiny, because you said so!

I need some help here. I'm apparently missing some postings from this thread, specifically the one where I and Dutchman state that we don't have E&O insurance. Not the case--I suspect we have more comprehensive coverage than most as we do both residential and commercial reports.

Dutchman's point is that if the appraisal is prepared correctly and thoroughly, who cares who sees it. We have nothing to hide and in fact, as Dutchman points out, we have something to show--a thorough, well-reasoned and supported appraisal report. Yes, only the intended user can rely upon my appraisal but I have no problem with the borrower getting a copy--nothing to hide.

 

[Carnivore]

but I have no problem with the borrower getting a copy--nothing to hide.

I stated early on that I support the buyer/borrower's getting a copy of the report prior to closing. That includes the AVM's and BPO's that were used in lieu of an appraisal completed by a licensed appraiser for the borrower/buyer.

In response to Dutchmans post:

If as an appraiser, you produce a credible, supported, and USPAP compliant appraisal, why are you concerned who reads it and what decisions are based on it?

I ask if he meant the world to be our master.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

I stated early on that I support the buyer/borrower's getting a copy of the report prior to closing. That includes the AVM's and BPO's that were used in lieu of an appraisal completed by a licensed appraiser for the borrower/buyer.

In response to Dutchmans post:



I ask if he meant the world to be our master.

Don't mean to speak for Dutchman, but once again if an appraiser produces a credible and supported analysis, who cares who sees it. If the work is done correctly, we are masters of our own domain (do not confuse with the Seinfeldian spin on this phrase).

We control what we do, the world be damned. We are the masters of what we do. That fact is oftentimes lost on the public and lenders.

 

[Dutchman]

The fact that we are the experts in appraising is not only lost on the lenders and the public but it is even lost on the appraiser . Many appraisers bend over or kiss the ....s of an underwriter that questions the report. We will add comp upon comp to an appraisal to satisfy an underwriter. We tremble when notified that one of our reports is being reviewed.
I make the point that if you have created a credible and supportable, USPAP compliant report there is absolutely no reason to worry.
Yes you can get sued, but you can get sued over anything nowadays. Frivolous lawsuits abound and you don't have to be an appraiser to get hit with one of those.

Carnivore,
I carry more E&O insurance than most since I specialize in high end properties and yes I have made mistakes on reports. I have also fixed those reports as soon as I found out, I find that most lenders are very willing to let you fix a mistake rather than suing you.
As Pittsburg Pete states We are the masters of what we do, we are the experts. IN your dealings with lenders, reviewers etc. if you know what you're doing, very few people will ever question you.

 

[Webbed Feet]

<...... snip.....> A jury once awarded a woman 3 million because she suffered burns from spilling hot coffee in her lap after going through a Mickey D drive thru. <snip>

It gets old hearing about that one. How about we try to mention the part where it was proven, in writing via an office memo, the accused had intentionally turned the temperature up past boiling in order cause the coffee to be too hot to drink so that the accused would not have to provide as much coffee to customers?

Negligence is often secretive. Court cases often have more to them than the public bothers to learn before blabbing about the cases.

Webbed.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Hey Carnivore -

I hope I demonstrated in previous posts I have a healthy appreciation for an appraisers' liability in the marketplace.

I don't mean to oversimplify the issue but much of what we are debating here boils down to appraisers NOT saying s*** they can't support and don't want to be held accountable for. It is as simple as that.

There is no aspect of human behavior that will approach the ideal unless there is a consequence for NOT doing so. Put your hand on a hot burner - you know what will happen. Author a bogus appraisal report and your chances are very good nothing will happen.

The argument that a bogus appraisal report can only harm the client because no other entity has the right to rely on the appraisal is not consistent with the term "profession." It creates a huge spot to hide. This has been demonstrated.

Furthermore, no, the world is not our master. Actually, the public is our master. The client is the entity with whom we have contracted and our responsibility to the client ends at fullfillment of the contract. We are not permitted to be biased in favor of our client nor are we allowed to be an advocate for our client.

Same goes for CPAs. BTW, when the move to licensing/certification took place the argument was made that "we could be a profession like accounting." Ain't happened yet. Oh, and what is the "cornerstone" of the public accounting profession? Answer: Independence. Can you influence a CPA to cross the line? Answer: Sure, but it ain't cheap because it is way too hard to become a CPA.

When the day comes that my appraisals are handed out to borrowers prior to closing I fully intend to add explanations, warnings and disclaimers to the reports I generate. So should every appraiser. CPAs can author and sign a prospectus and distribute it all over the world without fear of lawsuits IF they follow professional guidelines. We should be able to do the same, but they have the AICPA and we have the ain't-ready-for-prime-time TAF.

MP

 

[Carnivore]

IN your dealings with lenders, reviewers etc. if you know what you're doing, very few people will ever question you.

You dont know me, so dont assume anything.

---------------------

So am I to understand you that the Intended Use requirement of USPAP 1-2 is redundant? That statement 9 is not really necessary? That your reports as you have stated earlier can be used and relied on by anyone.

If as an appraiser, you produce a credible, supported, and USPAP compliant appraisal, why are you concerned ... what decisions are based on it?