Hybrid

[J Grant]

Non appraisers are allowed to inspect homes, for any number of purposes.

A RE agent can inspect a home for listing purpose, a home inspector inspect for repairs, an exterminator for infestation , an insurance adjuster for claims, etc.

But in a bifurcated , whoever the inspector is/ whether they hold a RE license or not, the results of their inspection will be used in an appraisal. How is that not part of appraisal practice? Whiz magic the lawyers/Fannie came up with (see my other posts )

 

[Addie]

I don't see the need to argue what capacity the 3rd party person is. You CYA them out. You relied on 3rd party, if found to be false it may affect outcome. 3rd party could be a private desktop where owner supplied info, broker, neighbor etc. If you as the appraiser feels it's credible enough for credible results, you're covered.

If you do not feel 3rd party credible, state why and disengage, keep copy of that workfile to that point.

 

[J Grant]

There's no


When push comes to shove, the act of inspecting the subject in isolation of the valuation will not be equated to appraising, any more that pulling a title report or taking a photo. Particularly when appraisals can and are performed without personal inspections. The cert relating to personal inspection has alternative answers for a reason - because inspecting is not inherently a part of the appraisal process except as an assignment condition.

Besides, that, you're jumping to a wild and unsupported conclusion that appraisers CAN NOT and WILL NOT disclose the use of this data source in their appraisal reports. You need to refrain from doing that.

??I never said appraisers can not or will not disclose this data in their appraisal reports. Where did I say that? (find the post please ) .

Appraisals can be performed without inspections. But in a bifurcated, the appraisal does include an inspection, and the appraiser relies on it and develops results/opinion of value from it.

Though the inspector performs the inspection "in isolation of the valuation", the inspection does not remain in isolation of the valuation, it is integrated into the appraisal (unlike pulling a title ).

 

[hastalavista]

In NC, it's class 1 misdemeanor to act as a RE appraiser w/o holding a valid license.

It seems the NC regulation is clear:

There are exceptions, but none of those exceptions would apply to what we are discussing if the "inspector" is acting as an "appraiser".

And that is the rub (IMNSHO): for the non-GSE pilot, the hybrid products I'm familiar with don't represent or identify the inspector as an appraiser. Per NC regulations, an "appraisal" is defined as:



I think a reasonable and fair argument could be made that an inspector's process does not constitute the analysis, opinion, or conclusion of identified real estate. The definition defines what the appraiser who does the valuation-component completes (IMO).

The scenario with the BPO, unfortunately for the agent, is a scenario where she did a value conclusion. And, yes, I've heard that certain entities engage agents to do BPOs without informing them of what the ultimate intended use is. That's not good.

The question will be if the GSE-program requires an appraiser to do the inspection component or not.
If they do, then there is no conflict whatsoever with NC or other states' with similar regulations.
If they do not, then two things will happen: (a) The entities within those states will have to make the argument that the inspector-service is not an appraisal and get that approved by the state's board; or (b) hybrid appraisals won't happen (or at least, will be challenging in the beginning) in states that interpret any component of the inspection process is part of the "appraisal" (assuming they have a similar definition as stated above).

As I said, for those who are opposed to this process, the place to fight it is at the regulatory level. That would include the state boards.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

I appreciate your passion and understand the emotion behind it because I've lived it. Have you considered the possibility that your narrative might be circumstantial, dangerous and self-destructive and others are calling you out? You consider the intent of the writer? You mean assume their intent...and build on those assumptions.

Absolutely. My writing, and intent, is entirely circumstantial. Dangerous? I would like to know what you mean about that. Self-destructive? I wouldn't say self-destructive at all, I would say self-preserving, if anything (lol, unless you mean my reputation, which I could care less about). Effective? Well, that strikes the heart doesn't it? I don't believe I ever claimed anything I have written has been effective and in fact, much of what I have written is asking others to also join the narrative, people who are much better writers and more persuasive than myself, for that very reason. No, a good politician I will never be.

I would like to hear any argument, that illustrates how appraisers organizing into a meaningful professional organization, would be anything but positive for all of us. And I don't mean some tangent, side-point of small significance, as our forum members love to post and then stand on, I mean a meaty argument that would define why appraisers should not do it.

And if organizing is not the solution, then what is? I don't see any current efforts having a significant affect, except for the result of no effort.

Seems to me, nearly all respectable professions have a professional organization. Yes, this industry has many. The problem with them is, membership is low, they are fragmented from each other, and many are influenced by special interests. It frankly shocks me, that a group of seemingly intelligent people, skilled in analysis, fail to see the need for organization. There are so many benefits, not the least of being able to take control of the appraisal process that is currently dictated to us. I simply don't understand why each and every appraiser would not jump at the opportunity to shape their own profession and fate and in fact, isn't that really each and every appraisers professional responsibility to do just that?

Currently, I am the only one on this forum to speak the narrative. And if not here, the Appraisers Forum, then where?

So far, I don't think people are so much calling me out, rather are resisting the idea altogether. I have attempted everything I can think of to get my peers to look themselves (and this profession) in the mirror and take a good look. I figure different strokes for different folks. It also seems to me, unfortunately, most people require a stiff slap in the face. That hurts, and that will drive some off for sure, but without it, maybe the creamy malaise will continue forever among too many.

I've said it before and will say it again. I have about a 1% chance of staying on as an appraiser. I'm tapped out and my gas tank is empty. That breaks my heart. For those of you who just can't wait for me to shut up and go away, that time may indeed come very soon. Yet, that will not change your fates one bit. Somebody needs to pick up a weapon and get to the lines. Somebody needs to lead. If all appraisers want to do is come on this forum and complain and debate until the end of time, rather than actually taking proactive measures to do something, then that is sad indeed. You can be mad at me all day long for what I write here, but at the end of the day, the woes of this profession are not on my shoulders, they are on the shoulders of all of us.

This is the Appraisers Forum, not the Lenders Forum, not the AMC Forum. Whom do you serve?

IMO, the elders of the appraisal community ought to assume the role of leadership, providing wisdom earned from experience, promoting encouragement to fight instead of submission. The younger generation, with the leadership of the elders behind them, ought to pick up their weapons and get on the front lines, and fight for this profession. History shows over and over and over again, the power of the masses can not be defeated, while the inaction of the masses always leads to oppression. Those may be some heavy words, but they are also 100% true.

Want something better? It aint gonna just get handed to you, you have to go get it. The starting point is the conversation.

 

[hastalavista]

Though the inspector performs the inspection "in isolation of the valuation", the inspection does not remain in isolation of the valuation, it is integrated into the appraisal (unlike pulling a title ).

True, but that's the case with any data collected/considered in our valuation analysis. That's why, in our certification, we have the following:

 

[djd09]

The entire industry was up in arms over 1 certified appraiser in a state sending 20 trainees all over the state to provide material information for use in an appraisal report. Many states adopted max # of trainees a cert appraiser could have because of it.

And they are calling you out for the hypocrisy. It was 3 maximum in Ohio. In addition there is a required class and both the supervisory and trainee need to registrar with the State. Plus fees.

 

[George Hatch]

Non appraisers are allowed to inspect homes, for any number of purposes.

A RE agent can inspect a home for listing purpose, a home inspector inspect for repairs, an exterminator for infestation , an insurance adjuster for claims, etc.

But in a bifurcated , whoever the inspector is/ whether they hold a RE license or not, the results of their inspection will be used in an appraisal. How is that not part of appraisal practice? Whiz magic the lawyers/Fannie came up with (see my other posts )

When an appraiser uses broker-developed info in an MLS or other listing service in their valuation, that information doesn't involve an act of appraising on the broker's part. I look at broker photos and descriptions *all the time* when there's a recent or dated listing for my subject. Was their development of that information an act of appraising? I don't think so.

Regardless of where information comes from or who develops it, the information itself doesn't become part of MY OPINION until I form MY OPINION about both its credibility and it's relevance to my valuation. Public records, Craigslist, assessor map, MLS or Loopnet listing, subscription data service, heresay from the neighbor or an inspection report - it's all the same in that respect. Some sources simply have better reputations for credibility than others - same as applies to appraisers as individuals and as a group.

 

[J Grant]

Broker information in MLS etc are data sources an appraiser uses, they were never considered part of the appraisal practice appraiser engaged in.

In a subject inspection, for decades Fannie/Freddie/FHA/lenders mattered where the "information" came from for inspection, as certification the licensed appraiser did it. or accompanied trainee (trainee getting licensed after years accompanying mentor on inspections)

Note how what was an inspection is now being re named. and demoted to "data gathering," , "data collection" or , "information" from a source ...setting the stage so subject inspection instead of appraisal practice can be said, nah, it;s not, it's just like any other data gathering...opening the door for bifurcated anyone can inspect for the appraisal, an hour class how to measure and press a button to photo. Fine, you win, appraisers can sit at computer instead of inspecting ( appraisers won't be able to afford a car anyway lol as each new development indicates)

 

[Carnivore]

True, but that's the case with any data collected/considered in our valuation analysis. That's why, in our certification, we have the following:
View attachment 36103

Well that there is a problem. If I have the name of the inspector and a phone number then I could be held to qualifying what was given me. OR If I chose the inspector because I know that I can rely on that person.

Since i don't pick the Inspector. Don't know who did pick the inspector. Never head of the the inspector. Then how can I claim to know or believe they are 'reliable' source? INSPECTOR: Harry the Aluminum Can Picker/Drive By Home Inspector ????? Who is Harry?

Example Data collected and Provided by Gaston County, NC GIS System - Well I can believe them to be reliable because i understand there Process. Strengths and Weakness's.

Harry the Aluminum Can Collector ? Never heard of him - Where is he from? How can I get in touch with him?

Corelogic - Yep Heard of them, yep have not found any endemic problem with the data they provide. Yep I find them credible and Reliable.