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If WE Won't Organize, Someone Else Will !!!

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Leon,
What organization is on record supporting an AVM format? Where can I find this record?

I do not "support" AVMs and I belong to an organization that to my knowledge does not support AVM. However, I realize that AVM companies will get bigger, better, faster and cheaper. This seems somewhat analogous to the mom-and-pop shop that tries to compete directly against Wal-Mart. It is best to up-scale your product line to serve the market for whom cheap and ineffective is not satisfactory.

The state boards and licensing authorities seem to be a large part of the equation - and whether the state boards will find that AVM is a "safe" product.
 
8)

Steven:

I do not know of any organization that favors an AVM format. However, the AI is promoting that concept, harvesting data from members files, and supplying to such a data base. That has been a matter of discussion on this and many forums. However, it is always best to check with the sourse(AI) and I have not done that. I have sat through at least a half dozen seminars on Regression, Multiple Regression, AVM's when I was teaching with McKissock Data Systems. matt McKissock is the mathematical whiz behind their product(Dragonfly) and their seminars on the subject. I believe they promote it as a tool, and as sort of a 4th approach to value. I may be wrong, but that is what I remember. I am going to forward this to Matt and maybe he can enlighten us. Personally, if I did use it, which I do not, I would use it as a check and balance against any other approaches to value I used. As a stand alone I believe it would be flawed. You can almost do the same thing if you have a sophisticated MLS that allows you to define parameters of search such as:

Number of stories, square footage, age, location, bedrooms, bathrooms, amenities. Then you could take the "mean" or "median" of those sales and do just about as good. To me that is no more than averaging.

I do suggest taking a course, from somebody, on the subject. At least it will enhance knowledge about which we speak.

Back to the subject: I stand by my original statement in that I support the efforts of any organization to make things better for all appraisers. It is the insidious trashing of professional organizations that I dislike and freely say so. We have had enough of that. A few years ago an MAI who should have been expelled from the AI had his cat "Mr. Tobias", become a member of the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers. After that ensued years of legal wrangling, harsh words, and just plain ugly stuff that made all appraisers look very bad. We do not need anymore of that. Fine, if the unions want to organize appraisers, have at it. Fine, if professional organizations want to form an umbrella group with the idea of promoting the interest of appraisers, have at it. Fine, if the National Association of Realtors promotes appraisers on a national level, and on a state level through their appraisal sections, have at it. Fine, if any individual appraisal organization wants to organize their members to promote appraisers interest, have at it. But how about we stop bashing one another, and, don't say you do not bash others and turn around and do that on this or any other forum. Many years ago when no one else would talk to me about being a member of an appraisal organization, and when I was discouraged from even trying to be a member, the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers was created and offered membership to all. However, their requirements were so loose that even a cat, through the fraudulent efforts of it's owner, became a member. We do not need that either. One of the best courses I have ever taken was the Residential Case Study by the AI. I have taken fine courses through the NAIFA, of which I am now a member. I have taken and taught courses for NAMA. There is good and bad in all organizations, and none has the Holy Grail. I doubt that any one organization will ever have the clout to do much for us. However, if we join our collective efforts together, we will and do have clout. I believe that if all organizations, and the NAR join together, we will have numbers that will cause someone to listen. I read someones remark that the Appraisal Foundation has failed to represent us. That is not their role. The Appraisal Foundation is organized as a not for profit educational corporation whose purpose is to develop standards of practice for appraisers, develop minimum requirements for entry into the appraisal profession, and to study, publish, revise, and promulgate changes to those standards and requirements as time, change, and the needs of society change and require that we change. That is what is going on now. Some of us do not like it. Hell, I hated to convert to a computer. When I did, a new world opened up. I hated to go paperless, but when I did my job became easier, and my pocket book a little fatter. It is in our nature to abhor change. We get comfortable, complacent. However, if we do not change we get left behind. I intend to keep up with change. Perhaps the role of professional organizations will change too. At some point we will have one national real estate appraisal professional organization similar to the NAR, whose individual groups will act similar to local associations. I look forward to it. So, join something.................don't just sit there, do something.

Don
 
To all of those who dislike unions,

The Guild is not an industrial union, we don't have shop stewards or wildcat strikes. We are an association of independent professionals who have banded together to work for the betterment of all members. Guilds were the first unions, independent tradesmen formed guilds to advance their goals. More modern examples would be unions such as the Barbers, who for the most part own their own businesses. Other recently formed guilds include the Doctor's Guild and the Model's Guild.

We have aligned ourselves with a larger organization the Office and Professional Employees International Union which in turn is a member of the AFL-CIO. We have the support and influence of these organizations to use to advance our goals. As you know, unions have the legal right to discuss compensation while other organizations would be in violation of anti-trust laws for doing so.

Unions also have political power second to none, even if you don't like Ted Kennedy he will support your union. Since our goal is to unify and support appraisers I can't understand why thoughtful appraisers would oppose us. I would suggest that those who dislike unions keep an open mind about the Guild. If you don't want to join us, please don't judge us according to an anti-union prejudice. We will continue to work for all appraisers with or without you but we would prefer to work with you.
 
To all of those who dislike unions,

The Guild is not an industrial union, we don't have shop stewards or wildcat strikes. We are an association of independent professionals who have banded together to work for the betterment of all members. Guilds were the first unions, independent tradesmen formed guilds to advance their goals. More modern examples would be unions such as the Barbers, who for the most part own their own businesses. Other recently formed guilds include the Doctor's Guild and the Model's Guild.

We have aligned ourselves with a larger organization the Office and Professional Employees International Union which in turn is a member of the AFL-CIO. We have the support and influence of these organizations to use to advance our goals. As you know, unions have the legal right to discuss compensation while other organizations would be in violation of anti-trust laws for doing so.

Unions also have political power second to none, even if you don't like Ted Kennedy he will support your union. Since our goal is to unify and support appraisers I can't understand why thoughtful appraisers would oppose us. I would suggest that those who dislike unions keep an open mind about the Guild. If you don't want to join us, please don't judge us according to an anti-union prejudice. We will continue to work for all appraisers with or without you but we would prefer to work with you.
 
8)

Walt,

Posting it twice won't make it any better :lol:


Just one example of union action.

A small boay died of a brain aneurysm. He w3as loved by all his teachers and classmates. The class had an idea to rememmber him. They wanted to plant a tree, and landscape around it. The idea grew. Over $3,000 was raised, and a hardware store donated material. When the union school jaintors found out about it, they threatened to file suit unless they were paid union wages for the work that was being done free, and by others. No work, just to be paid union wages for it. No thanks. I can sleep better at night not being associated with unions.

Don
 
Don,
A sad story if it's true. What does that have to do with our Guild? The Guild is OUR union and the members make the rules.
 
Walt:

Since Don is a recent member of an appraisal organization he will find out soon that he has little sayso and for some organizations he might not have a vote unless he attends the annual convention which most low level or low income appraisers are unable to do because of the cost of most conventions.

Leon
 
Steven:

Don pointed out one organization that participated with FNMA last summer to give seminars all over the country on how to do FNMA's short form Appraisal Reports. I just got a Flyer yesterday from Countrywide indicating that they will be giving a seminar in my city in partnership with FNMA on June 14th about increasing the loan volume for them and others involved, but I won't know what the details are until the 14th.

Leon
 
8)

Leon,

I joined an organization that listens to it;s members, regularly surveys their thoughts and ideas, repeatedly ask for input, and have local chapters with regular meetings. Where are the local chapters of the "Guild"(fancy name for a union?) Also, even prior to joining, I was asked to please volunteer to be on several committees. As to being able to afford to go to an annual convention, I have the means to go to any and all I wish to. If I did not make enough money in this business to be able to do that, I would get out of this business. However, that is a typical union response, we look out for the poor schmucks that can't afford to do this or that. I do not know of any starving appraisers, and if there are some, I suggest they get into something where they can make some money.

Walt,

Know why for many years you could not have a garbage disposal in your home in New York City :?:

Union garbage collectors would not allow it, not until Rudy took over.

"You are known by the company you keep".

Don
 
Walt and Leon,

It appears that Don doesn't like the Guild or unions from his posts.

But Don, help me understand your logic here because I'm confused. Please correct me if I am wrong but don't you still belong to the biggest, government sponsored/protected guild of them all? The VA appraiser panel? 8O 8O And you're criticizing unions/guilds when you derive income from a similar "beast??" Oh, boy. Must be nice.

As far as the professional organizations, they are there for one thing:learning and handing out designations when you demonstrate proficiency as an appraiser. I don't expect anything else from them because they are not large enough to clout anyone even if you could put them all together.

Yep, even Ben V is a member of the Guild. If they win one battle for appraisers in one state, it's worth the measley $175 membership fee. It's worth it to see somebody aggravating anybody in this business. And the only people I see aggravating anybody is the Guild. Good for them. It's cheap entertainment. Just a little more expensive than the free entertainment here on the forum....

Ben
 
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