Illinois Appraisers...

[Suz-E]

Good question...

I have not been asked to include information regarding it, although I believe some sort of statement could be in order. If you get into actually CHECKING if they have one, then you would have to either make sure it gels with the "Act" or come up with something that says, "yes they have one, but NOOOO, HECK NO I'm not making sure it meets regulations and I'm not taking responsibility for it."

Has there ever been any instance of an appraiser being liable for a home w/o working smoke detectors? I'm interested to know.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

I think the ledge should do something important for Social Engineering.. say, Ban single ply toliet paper; Place serial numbers in 1" tall letters on disposable diapers so you can track down and kill the scums who dump them in Wal-Mart parking lots, or, revoke dentist licenses for those with bad breath. A CO detector is silly in an all electric home.

 

[Pat Butler]

The Illinois law has exemptions for when no combustible fuels are used.

 

[Brian Weaver]

So, let's review...in ALL of Illinois there were 21 CO deaths in 2004 (last year for data) yet, there are 3 suicides per day in Illinois.

What sort of caveat should I craft for my reports for borrowers who might decide to kack themselves....worse yet, kack themselves by CO?

 

[jdbiggers]

So, let's review...in ALL of Illinois there were 21 CO deaths in 2004 (last year for data) yet, there are 3 suicides per day in Illinois.

What sort of caveat should I craft for my reports for borrowers who might decide to kack themselves....worse yet, kack themselves by CO?

The CO deaths were not people who were stupid enough to kill themselves. You can't prevent someone from being depressed. You can prevent a CO death. Big difference, especially considering the cost is a couple lattes from Starbucks vs. years of mental health treatment for the suicide. The state probably figures "we'll pay a few bucks per household if necessary, but as far as the suicides, we don't want those people around, anyway."

I am in AZ, but I still support CO detectors and their PROPER installation (no more than 4 feet from floor level, any higher and you'd be dead or significantly ill before the detector kicks in).

JD

 

[DTB]

I've never seen the height of 4' referenced anywhere, particularly since many units are combo smoke/ CO detectors.

This is just a new requirement with the accompanying buzz.

Illinois law states the tenant/ occupant is responsible to test the unit and replace the batteries. Like that's going to happen, they have enough trouble remembering each month has a first.

 

[jdbiggers]

I've never seen the height of 4' referenced anywhere, particularly since many units are combo smoke/ CO detectors.

This is just a new requirement with the accompanying buzz.

Illinois law states the tenant/ occupant is responsible to test the unit and replace the batteries. Like that's going to happen, they have enough trouble remembering each month has a first.

I got that height from the firefighters. They say that is the best height to have CO detectors at. Co mixes exceptionally well with other gases, so it is possible to be at any level but tends to flow more toards cool sides (thermodynamics). But, the problem with having them too high (like at smoke detector height) is that they can be set of by normal levels that may concentrate. Since most deaths and injuries occurr while sleeping, the detector near "bed" height is optimal since a reading at that point would likely NOT be false and would be adequate to provide proper alert. Also, since heaters are the largest source and heat rises, this would make the CO seek the cooler side and be less prevalent in the warmer air towards the ceilng.

That height also coincindes with the height of outlets near kitchen appliances (counter-top outlets) and often interior watre-heater/heater units. Makes it ideal to use a PLUG in model rather than a battery only model.

Conversely, a fire detector should be placde as high as possible given the nature of smoke and fire.

Anyway, this is the explanation I was given and it makes all the sense in the world to me.

JD

 

[Pat Butler]

Part of the problem with these combo detectors is that each target gas has different characteristics. My Dad lives alone and has no sense of smell. I had installed a standalone natural gas detector which was suppose to be installed near the ceiling. The same detector also detects propane and propane tends to sink. I think it's best purchase single function detectors.

 

[DTB]

My most definitive readings

Up-date 2/4/2005
=====================================================
Just read your reply to Michael K. on "Carbon Monoxide and Density" The
furnace room location may be okay if you have more than one alarm. However
of more prime concern is that the occupants be able to hear the alarm
while asleep. National Fire Protection Association has a code , number
720, 2-1.1.2* 1998 states that " A carbon monoxide alarm or detector
should be centrally located outside of each separated sleeping area in the
immediate vicinity of the bedrooms. Where bedrooms are separated and the
audibility of the alarm or detector to occupants within the bedroom area
could be seriously impaired, more than one unit could be needed. Each
alarm or detector should be located on the wall, ceiling, or other
location as specified in the installation instructions that accompany the
unit." . In addition more than CO will be emitted with furnace failure or
with the use of an unvented heaters. Carbon dioxide a heavier gas will
collect on the floor building up and possibly preventing carbon monoxide
from ever reaching the alarm if located at a floor outlet. That is why it
is recommended that CO alarms be placed high around eye level where the
higher concentrations would be concentrated. You are correct that natural
gas rises, however Michael K. did not state if his question on the gas
detector if it was about natural gas or propane gas. If his residence is
using propane then he would need to place the gas detector on the floor
next to the furnace and gas water heater. It is my hope that you ammend
your answers to Michael K.

Gary R.

 

[BRCJR]

If you indicate CO and/or Smoke Detecter, do you now also assume liability they are working the effective date of your appraisal?