That is true, Doug. It's the COD orders that get most of the flak. So, how do you tell a client that the fee will be $350 COD or $400 if collected at closing? I tried it for awhile and it doesn't work. Unfortunately, the "great minds" that order appraisals don't seem to have that much flexibility.
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Inflation and the appraisal industry
- Thread starter Doug in NC
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That is true, Doug. It's the COD orders that get most of the flak. So, how do you tell a client that the fee will be $350 COD or $400 if collected at closing? I tried it for awhile and it doesn't work. Unfortunately, the "great minds" that order appraisals don't seem to have that much flexibility.
REM sleep
Sophomore Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
fees & costs & Time
Alright, stop whining about the price of gas. Boo hoo. Yes, gas is more expensive, fees are shrinking in some places. When I started in 1991 we get 250-275 for an appraisal, 1999 - we raised it to 300, and in 2003 - we raised it to 350 and it has stayed there since. With the market downturn, we have to accept a little less - and tighten up our belts.
But I have scanned my brain for the cost differences in this business from 10 - 15 years ago. 1) Computers - 1994 - I paid $ 3,600 for a 166 MHZ Zenon Computer versus my last laptop - Under $ 1,000. 2) Cell Phone - 1995 - 0.69 Cents a minute - $ 400.00 per month versus 2008, $ 100.00 - 150.00 - unlimited calling. 3) Data bases - 1994 - easy $ 10,000 a year - Comps inc., MLS, Redi-Data Books - Microfiche Maps, Flood Maps - the old paper maps. Versus Now, all internet based - about $ 2,000 per year for all - many are free services, 4) Camera, 35mm Film, Photo developing - Cost & time wasted bring the film to the photo shop and picking it up. Easy - $ 5,000 per year versus digital film - download - upload to the job - Presto! done! 5) Overnight or messanger delivery - Minuimum $ 3,000 per year versus E-MAIL. No cost - except - AppraisalPort! 6) tax maps - for suburban or rural areas and 7) TIME - wasted looking up all the different data sources, having to always go to town hall or the assessors office to look at maps or to verify other things. OK i admit - I still stop in from time to time - old school - what can I say. And there were those times I had to hand deliver report. And last, All the cost for all the extra paper, laser printer toner, etc. for the jobs that had to be - hand signed and overnighted.
However, With computerization and the internet, this business is so much less costly. And you can run your business with a laptop and a blackberry! And you can streamline your business. Now, with your laptop and blackberry - you can effeiciently manage your business and your time. Since we're so used to business just be handed to us, we're lost our energy to find new business. Now with all this computerization, we can go out and find some new business - Network yourself....be creative.:new_smilie_colors1:
Alright, stop whining about the price of gas. Boo hoo. Yes, gas is more expensive, fees are shrinking in some places. When I started in 1991 we get 250-275 for an appraisal, 1999 - we raised it to 300, and in 2003 - we raised it to 350 and it has stayed there since. With the market downturn, we have to accept a little less - and tighten up our belts.
But I have scanned my brain for the cost differences in this business from 10 - 15 years ago. 1) Computers - 1994 - I paid $ 3,600 for a 166 MHZ Zenon Computer versus my last laptop - Under $ 1,000. 2) Cell Phone - 1995 - 0.69 Cents a minute - $ 400.00 per month versus 2008, $ 100.00 - 150.00 - unlimited calling. 3) Data bases - 1994 - easy $ 10,000 a year - Comps inc., MLS, Redi-Data Books - Microfiche Maps, Flood Maps - the old paper maps. Versus Now, all internet based - about $ 2,000 per year for all - many are free services, 4) Camera, 35mm Film, Photo developing - Cost & time wasted bring the film to the photo shop and picking it up. Easy - $ 5,000 per year versus digital film - download - upload to the job - Presto! done! 5) Overnight or messanger delivery - Minuimum $ 3,000 per year versus E-MAIL. No cost - except - AppraisalPort! 6) tax maps - for suburban or rural areas and 7) TIME - wasted looking up all the different data sources, having to always go to town hall or the assessors office to look at maps or to verify other things. OK i admit - I still stop in from time to time - old school - what can I say. And there were those times I had to hand deliver report. And last, All the cost for all the extra paper, laser printer toner, etc. for the jobs that had to be - hand signed and overnighted.
However, With computerization and the internet, this business is so much less costly. And you can run your business with a laptop and a blackberry! And you can streamline your business. Now, with your laptop and blackberry - you can effeiciently manage your business and your time. Since we're so used to business just be handed to us, we're lost our energy to find new business. Now with all this computerization, we can go out and find some new business - Network yourself....be creative.:new_smilie_colors1:
Tom Woolford
Elite Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Davidalf,
Well said. I looked at some old tax returns and my expenses are about 1/3 of what they were 15 years ago, and the time expended also is about 1/3 less. I used to use 2 cases of paper a month, now I use one every 6 months. No photo processing bills that used to run $300 a month. I used to have an assistant that did nothing but manage the sales database on 3x5 cards and spent 2 days a week at the clerks office filling out those cards. now all the data is available free online, or from MLS. Plat maps cost $1500 a set, and about $300 a year to update, now they are available online for free. My first PC was an 8088 machine with a 20 MEG (not GIG) hard drive for $2400, and thought I was slick because I used a progran called "ALT" that let me switch between dos based programs. Reports were printed on fan fold forms at $0.50 apiece, and the addenda pages were completed with a typewriter (A WHAT?). That was the high tech. A few years before forms were filled out by hand and given to a typist. My airborne bill was usualll about $400 per month. Fees may be less now than 25 years ago, but I have a lot more free time, spend less, have a much less cluttered office, and NO payroll other than my self. Heck, I save an hour a day just not having to go to the 1 hour photo place once or twice a day. No filing cabinets and no having to go back and retake pictures because you didn't know one was WAY out of focus. I'm good with the way it is today.
Well said. I looked at some old tax returns and my expenses are about 1/3 of what they were 15 years ago, and the time expended also is about 1/3 less. I used to use 2 cases of paper a month, now I use one every 6 months. No photo processing bills that used to run $300 a month. I used to have an assistant that did nothing but manage the sales database on 3x5 cards and spent 2 days a week at the clerks office filling out those cards. now all the data is available free online, or from MLS. Plat maps cost $1500 a set, and about $300 a year to update, now they are available online for free. My first PC was an 8088 machine with a 20 MEG (not GIG) hard drive for $2400, and thought I was slick because I used a progran called "ALT" that let me switch between dos based programs. Reports were printed on fan fold forms at $0.50 apiece, and the addenda pages were completed with a typewriter (A WHAT?). That was the high tech. A few years before forms were filled out by hand and given to a typist. My airborne bill was usualll about $400 per month. Fees may be less now than 25 years ago, but I have a lot more free time, spend less, have a much less cluttered office, and NO payroll other than my self. Heck, I save an hour a day just not having to go to the 1 hour photo place once or twice a day. No filing cabinets and no having to go back and retake pictures because you didn't know one was WAY out of focus. I'm good with the way it is today.
REM sleep
Sophomore Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
old School
Tom,
I hate to say it - you and I are "old School". I just turned 40 but it's ok. I'm "old School" - Dammit. I reflect on those days with a smile - that is the way it was done, but I really embrace and appreciate all the technological advances b/c they have made our work easier. Hey, I hope when the dust settles, there will be a reasonable solution and we do not have to do our work for AMC's. In the end, I like this field and want to continue doing it. The cost of doing business is always going to be a factor. :new_multi:
Tom,
I hate to say it - you and I are "old School". I just turned 40 but it's ok. I'm "old School" - Dammit. I reflect on those days with a smile - that is the way it was done, but I really embrace and appreciate all the technological advances b/c they have made our work easier. Hey, I hope when the dust settles, there will be a reasonable solution and we do not have to do our work for AMC's. In the end, I like this field and want to continue doing it. The cost of doing business is always going to be a factor. :new_multi:
Michigan CG
Elite Member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2006
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Michigan
Taping pictures into reports.....that was a joy.
I just sent my first commercial report PDF that did not also require at least two hard copies. Started sending PDF commercial about 18 months ago. Nobody wanted them. Then they started asking for both PDF and hard copy. Wednesday it was PDF only, no hard copy.
I talked to a commercial appraiser and he said he now charges and extra $200 for a hard copy. I am thinking about it.
I just sent my first commercial report PDF that did not also require at least two hard copies. Started sending PDF commercial about 18 months ago. Nobody wanted them. Then they started asking for both PDF and hard copy. Wednesday it was PDF only, no hard copy.
I talked to a commercial appraiser and he said he now charges and extra $200 for a hard copy. I am thinking about it.
Riick
Elite Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Delaware
My figures say I save about $45-$50/report - counting in time and materials - film, postage, paper, developing, etc. at 1998 rates.
I was ahead for quite a few years, but by now, with inflation, my reports should be a good $50 @ higher.
When I work with attorneys and such, I always quote them an extra $50 charge for 2 paper copies. Not one has taken me up on it.
Actually that figure is low, never use color printer, would certainly have to buy new carts to do a printout.
I was ahead for quite a few years, but by now, with inflation, my reports should be a good $50 @ higher.
When I work with attorneys and such, I always quote them an extra $50 charge for 2 paper copies. Not one has taken me up on it.
Actually that figure is low, never use color printer, would certainly have to buy new carts to do a printout.
CGgonnabee
Member
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Virginia
Best thing I have done in the past couple of years is subscribe to Adobe Online...it doesn't matter where I am or whose computer I am using, I can convert most anything (word doc, web page, etc) to a pdf and attach it to an e-mail. The service costs 9.99 per month. I use this for commercial reports, news letters, etc...everyone loves a PDF!
This is perfect when am traveling and I don't have a printer/scanner (I can remember going to CE classes for a week at a time and putting my multi-function machine in the trunk!). I can do research online and convert the webpages and send them to my e-mail...workfile is there when I get home. Great investment of $119.88 per year.
I can't remember the last time I had to send a hardcopy...but I did quote a $75 fee for two copies and FEDEX...there was no taker on that one.
This is perfect when am traveling and I don't have a printer/scanner (I can remember going to CE classes for a week at a time and putting my multi-function machine in the trunk!). I can do research online and convert the webpages and send them to my e-mail...workfile is there when I get home. Great investment of $119.88 per year. I can't remember the last time I had to send a hardcopy...but I did quote a $75 fee for two copies and FEDEX...there was no taker on that one.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Louisiana
All this talk about expenses left out the largest one, yourself. I'm glad you guys save paper and don't have to go to the local Fox Photo anymore. Ya'll left out what you have to pay yourself, the cost of transportation, the cost of insurance (business and health), the cost of housing and I could go on and on. Every penny saved has been devoured by dimes in real world costs. In all seriousness, does anyone really think that since we have digital photo's and online maps our fees, in terms of inflation, should be halfed?
Yeah, yeah I know but you can crank out more reports now. That's fine, it seems to be working so well I'm sure everyone here would send their child to college in hopes they become an appraiser.
Yeah, yeah I know but you can crank out more reports now. That's fine, it seems to be working so well I'm sure everyone here would send their child to college in hopes they become an appraiser.
Ray Miller
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2002
- Professional Status
- Licensed Appraiser
- State
- Wisconsin
What can I say here? The saving from technology is what??? You may save some time, you may save some paper, but I feel it is eaten up in other cost. Memberships in on line data bases increase in fees for MLS and Realtor Boards cost of the new equipment and computers, and what about the yearly cost of the soft ware and the updates increasing. Then the added cost of increase in CE. As others have said wages for your self, insurance, cost of transportation cars and trucks have increase in cost. The list can go on and on. Take a hard look around you at what other industries and professions are charging for just service calls to your property.
The other fact is gasoline/fuel now in the urban and suburban areas it may not be a big deal. But out here where I am at it is a big deal. It is becoming a huge cost, if you drive the sales looking for comparables ( which I doubt many do any more from seeing the reviews I do), if you drive the township offices and county court houses to verify the data on both the subject and the sales selected as comparables. If you spend this kind of drive time and research time gasoline/fuel is a big factor. If you wham bam thank you, then no you don’t have the cost.
Just this week, I have a rush order in Iowa County. The township has no regular hours as many do in the county, it is hit and miss, the assessor is over 60 miles a way on the east side of Dane County, not even in the same county. I have left three messages with no return calls about the subject in the past 8 days. The AMC is having a fit to get it done (old 2055 PMI Removal), the owner is still out of state so no data there. This one has turned out to be a money looser for me even at $450.
If this were the real world, the banks, lenders, borrowers should be paying a minimum of $1200 for a rural appraisal 1004 and there would be no 2055 of any kind. I can speak for the urban and suburban areas, I know not what their cost should be. But if you are going to do a correct report and follow all the guide lines regulations, sow you will have two to three days in a rural appraisal report, I feel.
The profession/industry I feel is paying peanuts for the work. They could pay more, how to I know, because this week I have had two different lenders order and pay me $800 for a rush report. Now if they can pay that, just why are people working for $150 for a 1004 from the AMC's in the same area? Someone is living and making money off the appraiser and its not the appraiser.
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