• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Investor Giving Me Tons Of Work

Status
Not open for further replies.
You have an effective date on the appraisal that is prior to getting the assignment from the lender. That doesn't look good in your file because it indicates that you have a relationship with the investor. Unless, of course, you're changing your effective date, which would basically be lying to cover your tracks and I'm sure you know better than that. Now that you know this wasn't a good idea the problem will be corrected in the future, but previous files that you've done for this guy already leave a paper trail that would be evidence of bias toward the borrower if they were ever closely examined. That, in and of itself, wouldn't make me lose sleep at night, but then there's this post that has me concerned:

Another though that I am about to do is a guy who fell on hard times and is selling to the investor and then becoming the tenant until he can buy it back.

The last one is a death in the family/ the bread winner dies (I saw the death cirtificate) and wify couldn't pay. It is vacant now.

This sounds too much like equity stripping, which is a predatory practice that is gaining more and more attention in the media and becoming a widespread problem. Suffice it to say that the last thing you want is to be closely linked to any 'investor' who preys on people who have fallen into hard times. Read the following links carefully. There are many more like it if you do a web search on the topic.

If this is what your 'investor' does, then you don't want to be associated with him anymore. Look into it Kate. Maybe I'm way off base here, but you really need to investigate what this guy is up to before you do any more work for him. Surely you don't want to take blood money and as I mentioned before you probably have a paper trail that could implicate you. If your reputation means anything then it would be a good idea to back away ASAP if this guy is up to no good. Any ethical appraiser who knew something like this was going on wouldn't have a thing to do with it.

About Equity Stripping

And here's one of the latest civil suits for equity stripping:

http://wcco.com/localnews/local_story_182074342.html

Remember, unless there's a tidy profit for the 'investor' they wouldn't be doing this, and the natural course would be that the property would go into foreclosure with the bank or the homeowner would negotiate something with the lender. That leads me to believe that there is equity to be stripped. If this is the case, then it falls right into line with your statement that his financial resources to pick up these places are not conventional ones. If he's not the lead man in these deals, then there's a possibility that the 'investors' that sell these properties to him are doing the dirty deed.

Pam was right on when she said:
This sounds like a somewhat 'sophisticated' investor. In my experience, the more experienced the investor, the more s/he looks for newbie appraisers that don't always know enough about appraisals and the laws to catch on to the shaky deals they are playing with. They actually look for newbie appraisers, flatter them, and hook them into doing their deals for them. It's just so much easier to 'hide' the details when the newbie appraiser doesn't really know where to look. The experienced investor has so many tricks to pull the wool over the eyes of a newbie appraiser it would be impossible for me to come up with and list them all here. They LOVE the newbie appraisers and snicker behind their backs for the liability they are placing on the newbie that doesn't know it..... yet.

Again, look into it Kate. Other than a couple of posters on this thread, I get the impression that everyone is smelling a rat here.

Yes, there are legitimate investors, but there's some real scum too. You are the only one who can determine what you are dealing with because you know or can find out all of the details. For your sake, I HOPE that I am jumping to paranoid conclusions, but if I'm on the right track then I figure that you need to get your eyes opened quick. If nothing else, perhaps this post will be a good learning reference for other appraisers.
 
And if you do find it as Dee Dee says and Pam warns, you can be the hero here and alert the FBI.

My concern with this "investor" is the premise that he purchases the properties at high interest rates. Waits for them to close and then attempts to refinance the individual properties at a lower rate.

Does the second lender know these are investment properties? Are you doing rent comp schedules and operating income schedules? Are the refi values being based on the purchase price?

Are you using his other purchases as comps? THAT would be a big NO-NO!
 
Are you using his other purchases as comps? THAT would be a big NO-NO!

I almost forgot that part!!!!

I NEVER use an investor flip as a comp, no matter what!!!!!!!!! Not the investor you are working with or any other investor working that area.

For me, all comps used need to be 'clean' sales without an investor involved for the past at least 2 years. In some areas, this makes valid comps really rare. If the area your investor is working in is like this... it's just one more reason to back away. Finding and verifying sales in some of those areas to find 3 arms-length transaction can be quite a chore and I do charge extra for doing appraisals in investor infested areas.

Also, I find most of the MLS data in these areas is by agents that are also involved in some way with the investors and cannot be trusted. I double and triple check everything.
 
Originally posted by Dee Dee@Jul 7 2004, 06:06 PM
So what are these multiple sales from investors that your investor is buying with unusual financing arrangements? Are they foreclosures or what?
Never heard of anything like it before.
Unusual or maybe more appropriately, unfavorable financing arrangements could be any number of legitimate funding sources.

A few that come to mind:

A hard money lender. Loan based on the property only at a sky high rate. Probably not the most feasable option for this sort of transaction.

A commercial line of credit at prime plus some. If this guy does a lot of transaction volume, this is the most likely. If it is set up as a warehouse line (similar to a mortgage banker's) he's going to have to clear it within 90 days or so. That would explain the need to quickly decide to fix and sell or hold and refi.

An equity credit line against his residence. Good for quick no hassel purchases, small volume transactions or to get started. He'd want to clear that one as quick as possible.

Seller financing. Maybe the seller will finance for a short period on a balloon note.

Investors buy and sell like this all the time. I had a several assignments last summer from one client that involved an investor (a licensed RE broker) selling multiple rental properties to another individual investor.

You can bet those were some very thourough, highly documented appraisals
 
Thank you, Scott! That's what I love about this forum....I learn something new every day. :)
 
DeeDee

I never even thought of the effective date being before we actually got the order. I am going to count how many are like that. That will be solved when i tell the investor not to contact me before he calls the LO.

Does the second lender know these are investment properties? Are you doing rent comp schedules and operating income schedules? Are the refi values being based on the purchase price?

Yes to all but the last thing. Refi values based on the purchase price? I don't get it. What do you mean? the refi values are based on the comps I choose.
 
Originally posted by Kate@Jul 8 2004, 08:55 AM

Does the second lender know these are investment properties? Are you doing rent comp schedules and operating income schedules? Are the refi values being based on the purchase price?

Yes to all but the last thing. Refi values based on the purchase price? I don't get it. What do you mean? the refi values are based on the comps I choose.
Commonly, on properties of less than 12 months seasoning since purchase, a lender will calculate the LTV based upon the lesser of the purchase price or appraised value. Some lenders may only require 6 months. I have heard that there are some that will go to current appraised value with no seasoning requirement but I have no first hand experience with any of them. Pricing will of course depend in part on the seasoning requirements for the program.
 
So, I have still been doing work for the investor. I can't find anything wrong in what he is doing. but this thread has stayed with me since I first posted. And it haunts me as sound advice to be aware of.

Like I said I have still done work for this investor as I can't find anything wrong with what he does. I have told him and the LO that we will not inspect until the order is received but he still contacts me for a heads up. He has been respectful of not scheduling anything until order is in hand though.

He does find deals, that is for sure. We give very conservative honest market values for his properties but they are mostly (note not always) higher than purchase price. For various reasons I have explained before.

So my mentor has brought up that maybe we should put something extra in the report being that we do so much work for him. I have composed the following and am looking for pointers.

The borrower is a real estate investor who buys and sells real estate on a regular basis. The investor on occasion has bought properties at below market value. The appraiser is unaware of any illegal flipping. In most cases the properties are rented out, but in some cases the properties are remolded and resold

What do you all think? Unnecessary? Not enough?
 
I wouldn't EVEN go there ... you are not appraising the buyer .... in your certification you state that you are not involved (i.e. have any personal interest) in the property being appraised. Anything I took notes on concerning the buyer, I would keep in my work file, but I wouldn't put anything in the appaisal about your investigation of the buyer .... Others might .... but not me .... no way ......
 
I second Doug (damn...ANOTHER 2 bucks)....which particular brand of "Can of Worms" do YOU like?

BTW
but in some cases the properties are remolded
is that after he gets rid of the first mold problem? :rainfro:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top