Is it living space?

[Wendy]

I'm doing a home where a former porch was turned into living space. Typically both the tax appraiser and the market accept these areas as living space if they are connected to the main living area, ducted and fully finished. Similar comps are plentiful.

The home I'm doing is the lower end of the market and "fully finished" becomes a bit of a subjective term.

This house has two rooms that were created from the old porch. They are on level with the original slab and share the same floor finish as the rest of the home- terrazzo. They are both separated from the main living area by sliders. Both have a combination of pained concrete block and paneling on the walls.

The one on the left is ducted and is used as a tv room. The one on the right is not and is used as a catch all room. Leaving the sliders open does allow the AC to cool the room on the right.

Would you count either one as main living area?

ps - ignore the focus issues. My camera is annoying.

 

[Mztk1]

Personally I would not.

The concrete block walls are an exterior finish and are likely not equal to the rest of the house. I would bet the rooms lacks similar electric outlets too.

If that house is 1800sf with the porches counted, I can't imagine the market not reacting to the finish compared to a house that was originally 1800sf base. I would separate the two areas on the grid and do the same thing for the comps that have finished porches counted as living area.

It is my experience that comparing finished porches to finished porches in my Florida markets, and living area to living area, provides more reliable results.

 

[Wendy]

Jim,
These are small 1000 sf homes --> 1200+/- with the enclosed porches. I have 3 comps of very similar condition and location. Two are like the subject (enclosed porches w/ varied finish and/or lower floor levels) and one is 1200sf as originally built.

The two w/ enclosed porches were listed counting the porches as living area.

Selling prices for all three are as tight as a drum. I find it interesting that the market is clearly accepting and counting this area as living space, it's getting taxed as living space, but we appraisers continue to treat it differently. Just an observation.

As a side note, larger middle to upper market homes do not react to it as living space. I guess the lower end of the market is a little more flexible!

FTR, I split it out 99% of the time.

 

[Charles Knutson]

As long as they are finished and heated, I'll generally call them living space.

If an enclosed patio is funky, and not up to the quality of rest of the house, I'll sometimes do a line item adjustment for enclosed patio -- but I try to be consistent with subject and comps in the same report.

A home that is built as a 1400 sf ranch will generally have a different market appeal than an 1100 sf ranch with a 300 sf enclosed patio.

 

[Nevermind 3]

Depends on the permits. If the space was legally permitted as living area or enclosed porch. It must legally permissible.

 

[Dennis J. Black ASA IFAS]

If comparables are plentiful why not follow ANSI and ID these areas as being enclosed porches and the valuation works out fine becasue you are comparing apples to apples.

 

[London]

Depends on the permits. If the space was legally permitted as living area or enclosed porch. It must legally permissible.

I absolutely agree with you! Call and check for permits.

 

[Wendy]

Depends on the permits. If the space was legally permitted as living area or enclosed porch. It must legally permissible.

In this case it was enclosed about 10 years after the house was built in 1965. I highly doubt I'd find the permits for that.

The market does not care if it was legally done, the tax assessor happily ignores legality in favor of revenue, and the local building authorities never even blink.

We, as fee appraisers, & in particular as either willing or unwilling fannie form slaves, seem to be the only ones with a different opinion about this type of space. I find that interesting as we are supposed to measure and report market acceptance/reaction and the market says no issue.

(this of course excludes the really badly done stuff)

 

[Wendy]

If comparables are plentiful why not follow ANSI and ID these areas as being enclosed porches and the valuation works out fine becasue you are comparing apples to apples.

In this case it does work out fine. I just using it as an example to spark a thread 'cause it is handy.

Many times, the breakout causes an ugly looking report and lots of stupid stips because they just cannot wrap their heads around anything even slightly out of the norm. You can explain in the report six ways to Sunday, but we all know no one reads the darn things.

 

[Zero]

I like the statement below. I include it in addenda.

Do these rooms you are talking about meet criteria 1, 2 & 3?

For attached and detached single family homes, Gross Living Area (GLA) is measured and calculated according the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) “American National Standard for Single-Family Residential Buildings,” a nationally accepted standard which conforms to Fannie Mae guidelines. Following ANSI and Fannie Mae, the appraiser’s calculation of above-grade square footage is the sum of—and includes only—areas that are (1) finished, enclosed areas of the house that are suitable for year-round use, with walls, floors and ceilings that are similar to the rest of the house, (2) on levels that are entirely above grade and (3) connected to the house through other finished areas, such as hallways and stairways.

Room count includes only those areas above grade and included in GLA. All below grade rooms are reported in the sales comparison grid under “Rooms Below Grade.”