July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[SANDY]

Mr. Wiley,

Please define what number "1" means and what it takes exactly to do that? What does "understanding software" mean and according to who does it have that meaning? Another case in point. The last I attempted an AppraisalPort AIReady conversion to a FNC file it was impossible to do if there was no live internet connection present when doing so. I'll admit it's been a long time since I've done one. But if nothing has changed regarding this, where is all the software residing for that? Solely on your computer? If part of it is sitting out at some web site, and reflecting back at you what the FNC conversion file is supposedly going to look like, only the appraiser cannot see it unless the outside web site that they have no control over is showing them what it wants to show them .... how does one "understand" the software and how is one assured they have adequately reviewed a report being generated at some internet site out of their control?

I am not a computer programmer or web master in control of that web site. Are you? Please tell me the precise defined moment of "transfer" so I can write it down. Would that be when I click on the "Send" button or is that immediately when the conversion program sends all that data to the web site and it reflects a report back on my screen that I am going to supposedly be sending when I click on "Send?" ... It sure is not WYSIWYG matching to what I created in my appraisal software package that I do control if I am connected to the internet or not!

Why are all of this countries appraisers having this dumped on them to define all of this personally in order to be in compliance? .. Sorry, these are the exact kind of failures I meant in leaving obvious questions unanswered by truncating the questions, to what are high tech problems and issues, in order to produce a technically perfect USPAP answer that leaves everyone hanging in space wondering what to do.

Webbed.

Keep on givin it to em Webbed!!!!! It's high time they got knocked off of their mountaintop!!!!

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Should be no more difficult than defining credible or what would you rpeers do!!

What the point of making up a definition?

It changes nothing...contingent assignments still aren't permitted.

 

[Fred]

Mr. Wiley,

Please define what number "1" means

Please define what "please" means.
Please define what ""define" means.
Please define what "what" means.
Please define what "number" means.
Please define what "1" means.
And please define what "means" means.

With all due acknowledgement to WJC.

 

[DWiley]

What does "understanding software" mean

I think it means just what it says. This is not a new concept at all. It has been part of USPAP since the adoption of Statement 2 in 1991.

By the argument you are making I could never do a report in any format except paper and typewriter unless I was a computer engineer. I know exactly how a typewriter works. I took a few computer science courses, but I don't know how WinTotal programming really works. I don't know the details of how Microsoft and Adobe products work either, but I understand how they work in the context of creating appraisal reports and I can use their viewing capabilities to look at the report to make sure it is meaningful and not misleading.

DW

 

[Lee Lansford]

I hear ya--- But if the ASB adopts a rule that says comp checks in all forms are not allowed it would go a long way toward clarifying the issue compared to the Q&A. Now would that even stop unethical appraisers from doing them----absolutely not and so it goes for any rules that are adopted! The ASB does not have the backbone to adopt any rules even on the appraisers themselves that would be considered by the lenders to not be in the lenders best interest!!!! Because they are controlled by the lenders and they are afraid that the lenders would go somewhere else to get their deals done besides appraisers. That's the real truth-I say that things are so bad now for appraisers that it's time to throw caution to the wind and for the ASB to step up to the plate and say to the lenders that we are tired of you folks using our professional standards as a stinkin smokescreen for your dirty tactics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE are going to make some changes that are designed specifically to thwart your deceitful ways and if that means you lenders go elsewhere for similar services, then so be it.

Sandy, RE: "...ASB adopts a rule that says comp checks in all forms are not allowed.."

The ASB has stated that if the appraiser communicates a opinion, or range, of value...or price...the appraiser has communicated an appraisal.

The ASB has stated that appraisers are not to accept assignments with pre-determined values.

The ASB has stated that appraises are not to accept assignments the fee for which is contingent on certain future events...including the opinion of value.

You ask the ASB to tell "lenders" what the "lenders" can and can not do. Please tell me by what authority the ASB could do this?

I suspect that you are frustrated (as are many who work in the appraisal profession) and angry...can't blame you for that...BUT you're directing your efforts in the wrong direction.

 

[William K]

What the point of making up a definition?

It changes nothing...contingent assignments still aren't permitted.

They wouldn't have to address the definition issue if they hadn't stated YES.
Once they stated YES they have now opened up the flood gates.

All a LO has to do is on a Comp Check order state
Completion of this order does not ensure that an appraisal order will be made and furthermore no subsequent "full" appraisal order is contingent upon the completion or outcome of this Comp Check request

If they would have just stated
"NO, an appraiser may only render a value opinion or opinion of range in value in compliance with USPAP! To charge or not to charge for services is not regulated by USPAP"
there would be no wiggle room for the term Comp Check.

Then if that wasn't an opening enough they add the term "FULL" Appraisal!m2:

What is a "FULL"Appraisal?! ( talk about lender speak!)

I can hear it now," Yes I did complete a comp check, but the appraisal I completed after that was not a "FULL"appraisal as referred to by the ASB, it was a Summary Appraisal"!

 

[Carnivore]

It changes nothing...contingent assignments still aren't permitted.

It is interesting that the ASB included the word "Free" in the question. That in itself raises the suspicion that a "Comp Check" appraisal was indeed accepted because there was a contingency. This is identical to RE Agents providing a BPO to a seller for the potential listing! The motive is to get the listing. The motive of the "comp Check" verbal appraisal is to get the actual traditional 2055 or 1004.

If you were paid something for the "Comp Check" appraisal you could at least claim that as a defense on a contingency accusation.


Just as a side note. The "comp check" appraisal demonstrates quite well how much of a regulatory burden ethical appraisers operate under. "Comp Check" Appraisals are simply not profitable if you comply with USPAP.

For example, last time I knew Wachovia pays $45 dollars for a Desktop SOW Appraisal. These are really no different then a "Comp Check" Appraisal with exception that you must send in a written USPAP compliant report as opposed to a verbal report and they pay you. Additionally if it blows the deal they order a traditional 2055 or 1004 from another appraiser.

BOA has a similar set up except that they upgrade the assignment(note "assignment") to the orignal appraier for a traditional 2055 or 1004 if the desktop goes bust.

I just see this as interesting to the problem. Some attempt to be Compliant is garanteed since they(boa and wachovia) are paying you to produce a written appraisal report.

So I conclude the residential traditional "comp Check" appraisal compliancy is not enforced nor ever will be enforced by the state. The market forces wont change anything because they are getting what they want for free. If the "comp check" verbal appraisal is free, then it disappears along with the notes as soon as its usefulness is fulfilled.

This problem will never go away.

 

[William K]

Sandy, RE: "...ASB adopts a rule that says comp checks in all forms are not allowed.."

The ASB has stated that if the appraiser communicates a opinion, or range, of value...or price...the appraiser has communicated an appraisal.

The ASB has stated that appraisers are not to accept assignments with pre-determined values.

The ASB has stated that appraises are not to accept assignments the fee for which is contingent on certain future events...including the opinion of value.

You ask the ASB to tell "lenders" what the "lenders" can and can not do. Please tell me by what authority the ASB could do this?

I suspect that you are frustrated (as are many who work in the appraisal profession) and angry...can't blame you for that...BUT you're directing your efforts in the wrong direction.

Lee

I think that the ASB needed to keep with what they were saying all along above BOLD.
The instant they said YES to the term "Comp Check" they made their mistake. Then they further muddied up the issue with a new term "FULL"Appraisal. This is a Q&A that is going to be abused big time!

 

[DWiley]

The motive of the "comp Check" verbal appraisal is to get the actual traditional 2055 or 1004.

One problem is that so many appraisers don't know the definition of the word "appraisal." Some honestly don't think that running a few comps and providing a verbal number is doing an appraisal. Of course many do know and just choose to ignore the rules that apply.

If someone wants a desktop appraisal with an oral report, I can do that. I have a template I designed to document all the things required by USPAP. I can do one in very little time, and I can take their credit card right over the phone. The charge for these works out to about $150/hour. Some are willing to pay for this service. Those who are not just try another phone number.

Of course a lot of MBs want free appraisals. People in jail want out. The difference is that wardens won't just unlock the doors to the prison, but many appraisers will work for free.

 

[George Hatch]

Should be no more difficult than defining credible or what would you peers do!!

Cute, but irrelevant**. Neither of those terms refer to appraisal services that you're asking the ASB to ban.

How can a state agency enforce a prohibition unless it has a definition it can it can work with? You have to be able to define the elements of the offense before you can enforce a prohibition on it.


** BTW, there are AOs that address the usage of both those terms in USPAP.