Let the borrower order it. The case for it.

[Hamlet]

In my market, that's a good fee.


TC

Well, I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[Mr Rex]

In my market, that's a good fee.


TC

It seems the coat and tie crowd only adds professionalism in the sense of over dressed for an under paid "profession". I remember working for Food Lion for 1.5 days. Unloaded a truck overnight, they wanted me back @ 8 wearing a tie. Professional grocery bagger required to wear a tie.:new_smile-l:

 

[Lee Lansford]

I made it very early on in this thread ... ALL appraisal reports done for mortgage lending purposes will be required to be reviewed by someone certified a minimum of five years. I dont care who orders the report.

P.E., the question then becomes "who will review the reviewer"?

Seriously.

I've heard from more than one "higher-up" within the lending side of things that the reviews that they contract out and receive are no better than the original appraisals...which generally aren't all that good.

Way too many appraisers who work in the residential lending side of things can--maybe--fill-in the blanks on a form, but they aren't what I would characterize as an "appraiser".

Lee

 

[Greenback]

Letting a homeowner or buyer choose the appraiser would never work, period. That was the crux of the "VA Appraiser Select" bill a few years ago that was an attempt to dismantle the VA fee panel in favor of "allowing" the veteran to choose their own appraiser. Problem is, not many veterans, home owners, or home buyers KNOW any appraisers. So what does that leave us? Of course, it leaves the agents or lenders to choose "their" favorite appraiser for the buyer or refinancer.

Even if the homeowner or buyer DID know an appraiser, then the undue influence effect is in play. How would it look for a "friend" that is also an appraiser to come in "low"? Hmmm. A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body. A true friend that is an appraiser would NEVER appraise your home.

No, we need some sort of honest and genuinely disinterested 3rd party of some sort. Yes, I know it is a tall order, but is what is needed. The problem is, how much will this (or these) third parties cost us. Some one has to pay, you know it will be us, in reduced fees.

Majority of home owners do not know any Appraisers and, if they did, sure, something will come into play. But, not everyone is buddy-buddy with a Real Estate Appraiser. The buddy system in America will always be in play. Not everyone knows a Real Estate Appraiser. In fact, many people don't know what a Real Estate Appraiser is.

Real Estate Appraisers aren't defined properly by other professionals and sometimes other agents involved know far too well how to manipulate through their professional status or maybe their position within the process.

I've had individual clients. I seek out individual clients. I enjoy individual clients. The only time I've had problems with home owners or consumers is when they are sold by various agents before the Real Estate Appraiser comes into the picture or process. Sale tactics and greed has an overwhelming affect on behavior (making one think this and that, which just aren't true). If a person is to be sold by several agents, then the dumbing down already taking place and which has been taking place for far too long, will portray the Real Estate Appraiser as the insignificant other or maybe the person whom needs to be cheated/ and or enslaved in order for the sale to take place.

The fact is, individual clients may not be the norm. The norm is what people know because that's just the way it is. If the general public doesn't know any better, then how will they ever know? The status quo will fight to keep the general public away from the Real Estate Appraiser. The public, which is sold and taught to observe the RE Appraiser in the wrong way, assists the status quo in producing monies by way of dumbing down the public and the Real Estate Appraisal profession. The Real Estate Appraiser is just as important to the general public as it is to the bank, mortgage broker, portfolio lenders/lenders, Real Estate Agents (sales people), etc.., the problem is that the general public does not notice this because they are completely sold.

Third parties are never made to be disinterested. Human nature insists. It may be good or bad. There is always an interest. Motivation is a key difference for me. The public goes through a process dealing with sales people first. If the public found out they do have a choice to pick their own RE Appraiser, then the norm may be to, seek out a Real Estate Appraiser first, maybe common sense, then, may prevail. The public may need to be directed or given a heads up to seek out the appropriate professional first before dealing with sale tactics; truth matters when injected into a nest of lies, greed, and possibly corruption.

The public truly think they are being told the truth; therefore, a RE Appraiser may be as logically prepared as ever, but once sold (involving a lot of monies and meeting of the minds) it gets tough to earn respect. The general public is fed less than half truths and that's sad.

If any normal human being is consulted first by the appropriate professional, whatever that may be, that individual will be able to make a better decision. Yes, the lender is giving out the money, but they have a more powerful ability to strong arm their greedful intentions. The home owner or consumer has more of a risk to take, in my eyes. Most of the time, real estate is an individual's entire life; this becomes signicant when the basket of demand consists of what's considered, in my eyes, the heart of the economy. Real Estate to a status quo client is just another, that's all, just another.

...Just another; their clients aren't important enough; their client's money is what's important to them. The general public have been hidden from the facts and have settled for the propaganda, small and big lies, ingorance, sale tactics, etc.., but this shouldn't be on their shoulders, not their fault.

Serving the public and upholding public trust, if it was the norm, may be the next biggest step for the Independent Appraiser. I may be wrong, but it's exciting knowing there are thousands upon thousands of potential clients being part of the most idealistic society on earth. New intended uses and purposes may be a result in the long run.

If no one knows, then how will they ever expect to know? Limiting a client base only to the status quo as being the norm, limits the Independence of the Real Estate Appraiser and the knowledge/decision making of the thousand upon thousands of consumers and homeowners within the heart of the economy.

Hopefully, in due time, the general public should have the privilege to know, on a daily basis, they may have the responsibility to choose their Real Etate Appraiser, and most importantly, why they should care enough to seek out one.

The general public doesn't know they are to respect the Real Estate Appraiser within the correct context. Perception and stigma is hard to overcome. Sometimes the general public perceive the RE Appraiser as just an unecessary fee, as told by the the status quo. The status quo can sell the public anything they want regarding the RE Appraiser, due to the fact that they can and, if they don't, then they will lose monies and their quest for evil centralization. The status quo can tell the general public in private, one by one, anything! Therefore, they take away from the general public and the RE Appraiser, taking all the money and trust, while enslaving a profession and playing childesh/risky mind games with the public's most precious investment.

I am completely behind the IVPI, the proposal, etc.., but improvement should always be considered; a more knowledgeable general public means more Independence for the Real Estate Appraiser. None of this can really happen unless the IVPI and the new changes are handled accordingly with repeated years of progress and success, along with strong enforcement in the right location.

I support the IVPI and a more knowledgeable market (meaning a more knowledgeable general public). Without a knowledgeable public, then a knowledgeable market will logically be impaired.

Unfortunately and fortunately, the profession must spend energy and years controlling corruption to a degree in which progress for more Independence may take place.

Sincerely,

 

[john snyder]

"If the public found out they do have a choice to pick their own RE Appraiser, then the norm may be to, seek out a Real Estate Appraiser first, maybe common sense, then, may prevail. The public may need to be directed or given a heads up to seek out the appropriate professional first before dealing with sale tactics; truth matters when injected into a nest of lies, greed, and possibly corruption. "

That was very good.

Here below is a bond proposal that is interesting.

The proposed bond that may cost appraisers as much as $ 40k a year starts out with the "gasp" homeowner not a lender as follows:

`(A) the bond shall inure first to the benefit of the homeowners who have claims against the appraiser under this title or any other applicable provision of law, and second to the benefit of originating creditors that complied with their duty of good faith and fair dealing in accordance with this title; and

Since the homeowner is the first mentioned above they also should be the client our at least co-client. Obviously they are an intended user.

I have heard/seen cases that a buyer filed a complaint against the appraiser because they are upside down on their loan. Was the borrower a client?? Not on the appraisal but an intended user via receiving monies based on the appraisal.

I have heard/seen cases where the seller filed a complaint because the appraiser came in less then the sales price thereby causing a readjustment of the deal. Is the seller a client?By identification the client is in these cases are the federal agency with the intended users as, the lender, then the borrower? It certainly was not the seller. They are just po'd since they did not get as much money. So they are not the client or the intended user but filed a complaint.

We have three different scenario's for clients, A-homeowner/seller, B-buyer/borrower, C-lender and any other intended user (buyer of that mortgage)down the line.

Each and everyone can file complaints.

But back to the bond - interesting that the proposal starts out with the homeowner.


jbs

 

[PropertyEconomics]

P.E., the question then becomes "who will review the reviewer"?

Seriously.

I've heard from more than one "higher-up" within the lending side of things that the reviews that they contract out and receive are no better than the original appraisals...which generally aren't all that good.

Way too many appraisers who work in the residential lending side of things can--maybe--fill-in the blanks on a form, but they aren't what I would characterize as an "appraiser".

Lee

With all due resepect Lee .. thats what happens when you have the original appraiser having 30 minutes of experience and the reviewer with the experience of an hour. Im constantly amazed at how many licensed appraisers (and trainees for that matter) post here they are doing a review.
A reviewer would be required to have five years experience in the business ... even the most fool hearty have learned after that time ... and if they havent ... they will expose themselves in relatively short order.

If the number hitters are going to prevail, which they have in the past, then it matters not who orders the appraisal. The result is still the same. Only when an "appraiser" is threatened with an automatic review by a qualified appraiser will the "appraiser" start to rethink their logic and work ethic. I personally think it would increase the quality of reports nationwide.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

With all due resepect Lee .. thats what happens when you have the original appraiser having 30 minutes of experience and the reviewer with the experience of an hour. Im constantly amazed at how many licensed appraisers (and trainees for that matter) post here they are doing a review.
A reviewer would be required to have five years experience in the business ... even the most fool hearty have learned after that time ... and if they havent ... they will expose themselves in relatively short order.

If the number hitters are going to prevail, which they have in the past, the it matters not who orders the appraisal. The result is still the same. Only when an "appraiser" is threatened with an automatic review by a qualified appraiser will the "appraiser" start to rethink their logic and work ethic. I personally think it would increase the quality of reports nationwide.

Thank you, PE.

The dumbing down of appraisers:
http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=126687&highlight=puzzle
Please don't let this finalize.

The Dodd/Crowley IVPI Proposal could include the possibility of borrowers being able to order the appraisal to shop for a lender with?????
What it will not allow is any selection of the appraiser or pressure to the appraiser by anyone involved in the mortgage. Not much left of incentives to appraise improperly, especially for a mortgage loan. Proven experienced reviewers only would promote quality.

 

[panappr]

That is an excellent idea. When you know you will be reviewed you will spend more than 20 minutes doing your adjustments and actually put thought in them. Imagine the number of reports a reviewer would send into the state getting rid of unethical appraisers. After abut a year everyone would get it. NO PUSHING VALUE.

Exactly, however, the reviewers position needs to be the cornerstone of the industry. Right now, if your reviewing you're likely making half as much as the the appraiser. 25 yrs ago this was the opposite as I recall. I used to be a staffer working for institutions in the beginning and there was always incentive to become a reviewer. It was a position to be guarded and meant more responsibility with increased pay.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

I've heard from more than one "higher-up" within the lending side of things that the reviews that they contract out and receive are no better than the original appraisals

at the price they pay they are getting no more than they pay for and obviously therefore, they don't want much.

you're likely making half as much as the the appraiser

with reason above...

the reviewers position needs to be the cornerstone of the industry

PE is right. It seems to be the training ground for newbies. 5 yr. exp. would seem a reasonable minimum.

 

[J Grant]

review appraisers should have min of 5 years, pass an exam, and also have a certain number of their appraisals reviewed a year. i perfer 8 or ten years experience. I agree, more reviews will help clean up the profession. I really hate the idea of borrowers ordering the appraisals. they know nothing about appraisals, will either pick the cheapest one, the one with the cutest ad, or other nonesense. I can see the ads in the yellow pages offering free coupons and pizza and who knows what. It is just not that sort of business. Imagine joe homeowner calling 20 ads from the yellow pages and comparing prices, or grilling each appraiser choosing the appraiser he thinks will give him the highest value. Imgaine the time you will wate, talking to dozens of homeowners a week and getting no orders from them. Most homewoners, i try to avoid talking to them much at an assignment, if they do start talking about the market, it is clear they think the appraiser should be looking for the highest value, they even say it, and try to back it up by rattling off sales their neighbor the realtor told them about, pointing out the million dollar new home being built down the road etc. I don't agree re Dodd Crowley proposal owners ordering appraisals for fedrally backed loans should have been included, others see it differently, will see where this all comes together in coming months!