Live "in-person" Education From A Distance

[TD Morgan]

Greetings!

I want to find out if appraisers are interested in sharing their viewpoints on an issue pertaining to "distance education".

The AQB policy on the matter was designed to deal with purely "on-line classes" and also included television-based learning etc. The AQB is taking the position that the 1994-based policy is still appropriate, regardless of the advances in Internet technologies. The Chair (Wayne R. Miller) has implied that education providers don't want any changes.

As an appraiser for almost 25 years, I have limited my own continuing education because courses I was interested in would have required a one or two hour drive each way. For week-long Appraisal Institute classes, it is all but impossible to transit, adding hotel fees to the cost of education.

I have asked some course providers if they could set up a webcam or webinar system, and they point to the AQB policy as the reason they are limited from doing so. I also put this matter in front of my state Board, who also points to the AQB policy and reigidly resist any alternatives. [I don't even care if I received "credit" for the course, but course providers simply would not consider doing so in order to prevent running afoul of the rules in place!]

I have been in touch with the AQB Chair to "redefine" the definition of "distance learning" so that live courses could be attended remotely (using webcams or other methods to determine attendance compliance.) As you all probably know, there is no requirement for testing or quizzing for in-person continuing education hours to "count." At this time, there is a requirement for an IDECC-certification to teach "distance" education (which is defined as anything that is from a remote location.

In order to facilitate the actual needs of the AQB (to make sure that there are "rears in seats") there are now simple ways to learn remotely while being able to track attendance, "Eyes" can even be put onto a student via webcam to verify compliance.

Mr. Wayne R. Miller is not really interested in looking into this matter and has indicated that the AQB has already made its decision WITHOUT putting the matter in front of the professionals over which it has authority.

In a nutshell, I feel that the policy limits the professional development of appraisers. It also harms those who live far away from where the bulk of courses are being taught (LIVE), and this is also an issue for appraisers who are physically impaired and limited from driving long distances. (As we are getting older, I am sure this matters to more and more of us.)

I also feel slighted by Mr. Wayne R. Miller, since he doesn't seem to give proper respect to an appraiser who is in good standing (with nary a complaint with the appraiser board.) My request for review seems reasonable to me, given the technological advances since 1994.

Finally, I have taken many "distance courses" from various providers and the current system does not promote improvements in the courses once they are developed. I would much rather sit in front of a computer screen while a live class is being taught, by an actual professional appraiser.

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I have a couple of years to work on getting a change, but without support, I doubt the bureaucratic Chair of the AQB will be swayed. He doesn't even think that there is need to reasonable accommodations for disabled folks to take part in educational opportunities that they cannot physically attend.

Is this a matter of concern for any other members of this forum?

Feel free to start a private conversation with me if you have private information you want to share. I am eager to hear from course providers.

 

[Adios]

Joe, as a national education provider I can assure you there are barriers to producing high quality educational offerings. IDECC has standards that far exceed state minimum standards for in site courses.

But it is hard to blame just AQB. Appraisers generally seek the cheapest course that they can whip through in 30 minutes. Plenty of evidence here on this forum where appraisers are not seeking high quality education.

Only about half the state's comply with the CAP program. Basically what that means is I get to pay a toll to TAF as well as the State and to IDECC too.

 

[Meandering]

Maybe this helps

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[DWiley]

I have also approached the AQB about offering education in a "Live-Distance" format. They have been open to my comments, but have also said that it would not be a high priority unless others commented as well, deomnstrating a need to dediicate resources to looking at it.

 

[Meandering]

And that is a story they can continue forever, when one or two approach them at different times. Apparently it does not fit into their agenda.

More stifling of innovation.


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[Eli]

Joe, as a national education provider I can assure you there are barriers to producing high quality educational offerings. IDECC has standards that far exceed state minimum standards for in site courses.

But it is hard to blame just AQB. Appraisers generally seek the cheapest course that they can whip through in 30 minutes. Plenty of evidence here on this forum where appraisers are not seeking high quality education.

Only about half the state's comply with the CAP program. Basically what that means is I get to pay a toll to TAF as well as the State and to IDECC too.

Not necessarily desire for more and higher education, especially since more of the appraisal fee being charged the consumer is going to a middle man or middle woman in many cases (AMC's).

Affordability comes into play as well now more than ever. You can go to a poverty stricken area in your city and hand out coupons for buy 1 get 1 free dinners at the most expensive restaurant in your city and also hand out coupons for buy 1 get 1 free dinners at the closest fast food restaurant in your city and see which coupons get redeemed the most.

Do the same thing in the highest income area of your city and see which coupons get redeemed the most.

Make it the same expensive restaurant and the same fast food restaurant which also happens to be closest to the poverty stricken area just to drive my point home. Try to make the most expensive restaurant as close or closer to the poverty stricken area than the high income area geographically.

It's not always about desire for the best education that counts.

 

[TD Morgan]

Joe, as a national education provider I can assure you there are barriers to producing high quality educational offerings. IDECC has standards that far exceed state minimum standards for in site courses.

But it is hard to blame just AQB. Appraisers generally seek the cheapest course that they can whip through in 30 minutes. Plenty of evidence here on this forum where appraisers are not seeking high quality education.

Only about half the state's comply with the CAP program. Basically what that means is I get to pay a toll to TAF as well as the State and to IDECC too.

Joan, are you saying that the live courses need more stringent requirements, or that the "toll" you are paying should be lowered? Or do you think that in=person classroom courses should also include the same quizzing process that IDECC requires to "prove" attendance?

Also, the Distance Education Certification Program only reviews courses for instructional design and delivery. The actual information content is not reviewed to determine its quality. What IDECC standards are superior to state requirements? Please let me know what you mean.

Given that, once approved, IDECC-approved, on-line distance learning do not require an instructor, aren't they very lucrative to companies such as yours?

I know there are several of your competitors who care deeply about what they are doing. But there is at least one who pays a course developer peanuts and then owns the course with which they exploit in the marketplace. The developer doesn't get any residual fees and cannot be reached for feedback when there are questions. Most importantly, many of these courses are never updated. They remain stale. Live courses can be easily updated to reflect new information.

I personally prefer live courses with good instructors. I have taken courses from most providers, and the AI is very professional. They also provide great feedback if there are questions.

But you really did not address my actual concerns. There are many courses that are available ONLY in classrooms. The AQB policy limits attendance unless an appraiser is close enough to be able to drive to the where it is being taught. Shouldn't appraisers be able to take any approved course without limitation?

 

[TD Morgan]

And that is a story they can continue forever, when one or two approach them at different times. Apparently it does not fit into their agenda.

More stifling of innovation.


.

These folks at the AQB know that they need to consider what is in the best interests of the appraisers over whom they "lord" and I do not intend on backing down with this issue until it is given proper consideration.

The first letter Wayne R. Miller sent me indicated that he was concerned that students' attendance could be verified. He did not indicate that it had anything to do with course content.

I have been involved in webinar training that far exceeded my wildest dreams.

Changing the policies should increase the number of courses and the specialization of topics.

It should also allow very small classroom instruction for highly-specialized education that does not appeal to the masses (and would therefore not be profitable to otherwise develop an on-line course.) I have been "forced" to take classes that did nothing to expand my professional knowledge because, after 25 years, the typical class is simply a review of what I already know.

 

[Adios]

Joan, are you saying that the live courses need more stringent requirements, or that the "toll" you are paying should be lowered? Or do you think that in=person classroom courses should also include the same quizzing process that IDECC requires to "prove" attendance?

Also, the Distance Education Certification Program only reviews courses for instructional design and delivery. The actual information content is not reviewed to determine its quality. What IDECC standards are superior to state requirements? Please let me know what you mean.

Given that, once approved, IDECC-approved, on-line distance learning do not require an instructor, aren't they very lucrative to companies such as yours?

I know there are several of your competitors who care deeply about what they are doing. But there is at least one who pays a course developer peanuts and then owns the course with which they exploit in the marketplace. The developer doesn't get any residual fees and cannot be reached for feedback when there are questions. Most importantly, many of these courses are never updated. They remain stale. Live courses can be easily updated to reflect new information.

I personally prefer live courses with good instructors. I have taken courses from most providers, and the AI is very professional. They also provide great feedback if there are questions.

But you really did not address my actual concerns. There are many courses that are available ONLY in classrooms. The AQB policy limits attendance unless an appraiser is close enough to be able to drive to the where it is being taught. Shouldn't appraisers be able to take any approved course without limitation?

There are two standards. The local classes can be very good or just plain awful. There is no national standard to which to comply. They can voluntarily submit to the CAP program but that is just an extra fee with really no benefits as I see it.

I can't speak for what other do but we pay a fee that is about 5 times higher than an instructor fee. We also pay a royalty on each class sold. I am not sure what others do. Then we have production costs. We fly in the instructor and do audio and video. We think that makes the class a whole lot more interesting. Our charts and graphs class is very interactive for example. That is costly. It takes a lot of production time. It takes us about 9 months to birth a class.

I too love live classes but trying to find a talented instructor with fresh material is a challenge for certain. I cut my teeth on AI classes and flew around the country for one week at a time. The qulaity of education I received was outstanding.

I know what we go through for AQB and IDECC. I have looked at my competitors courses. And I frankly do not understand how some of these courses get approved. Very sad.

I don't really have a solution for you. It is so expensive to produce a given course that offering it on site no more than once a year may not even attract a full house. Online it may just be too small of an audience to even bother with. What topic are you seeking?

The short answer is I think both types of education are useful. There is nothing like the human element in a classroom setting. But quality isn't always consistent.

 

[Meandering]

Perhaps you might find that their opinion of what's in the best interests of appraises is the APB they can profit from, not whatever profits you.

Perhaps, a collation of appraisal education entities should approach them at once, instead of one at a time.

Where does the AI stand on this?

After 25 years of CE I believe you have hit all the potential topics in real estate. Even now, I've taken update classes to classes I've already taken, and I'm not here 25 years.

Good luck to you. Maybe Joan will answer your questions, which would be nice.

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