Michael Geis
Sophomore Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2002
Hall,
Never heard of that one before. Pretty creative though.
Never heard of that one before. Pretty creative though.
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Living Area Below Grade
- Thread starter Michael Geis
- Start date
- Status
Em Tee
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- California
Mike:
Do you mean you're using comps that don't have basements? Don't you have any with basements similar to the subject? If your comps do have basements, the adjustments wouldn't be out of whack because you'd move the basement area for the comps to the same line as the basement area for the subject.
Do you mean you're using comps that don't have basements? Don't you have any with basements similar to the subject? If your comps do have basements, the adjustments wouldn't be out of whack because you'd move the basement area for the comps to the same line as the basement area for the subject.
Ray Miller
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2002
- Professional Status
- Licensed Appraiser
- State
- Wisconsin
Never in my life have I heard of such a building. It that anything like a reverse mortgage?
H
Hall McClenahan
Guest
Don't know, personally I dont make enough to lend money to the mortgage companies.
I thought it was pretty creative way to sell a ranch with finished walk out.
Hall
Joker
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Ohio
The problem I see with including basement area in GLA is that it is rare to have the subject and comparables with basements that are 100% finished to the quality consistent with the above grade living area. Inevitably there is a mechanical room, utility room, storage room, or garage that is not finished and should not be included in finished GLA. The best way to illustrate the difference is by having a seperate line item.
Remember, we don't appraise to a form. The form is a reporting tool. If the client wants to see how we have arrived at value by differentiating between above and below grade areas, we should be accomodating enough to do so.
Remember, we don't appraise to a form. The form is a reporting tool. If the client wants to see how we have arrived at value by differentiating between above and below grade areas, we should be accomodating enough to do so.
To all,
I do not care how much you want to get into "market norms" etc. Anything below grade on any side is a basement- period. Wahy on Earth do you want to complicate this issue when ANSI spent years on it and pretty much everyone has adopted it- NAR, NAHB, all the Appraisal organizations- including the assessors, Fannie Freddie, FHA!!!!!
Please understand that no one is saying the below grade space does not add as much to value if that is what your market tells you- but if you count it as GLA you are simply wrong. There is no black and white in this- THAT is why there is such a standard- BECAUSE there was so much confusion. Sheesh.
A report that shows the GLA correctly with an explanation is far more credible than one that makes it up as one goes along. I know of NO reviewer who would question a large adjustment for the basement given the nature of the space- and I know of none who would fail to question you if they knew it was below grade.
John W- you mentioned Palatine. Is that Palatine, IL? If so, I know a great deal about it. About the only areas in Palatine, IL that have such a set up are a couple of subdivisions on private lakes where there are numerous hillside ranches with the "public" areas below grade in walkout basements.
You would find raised ranches with the kitchens/living rooms, etc. beow grade in Streamwood and you will alomost always find good comps that are model matches in that area.
Brad
I do not care how much you want to get into "market norms" etc. Anything below grade on any side is a basement- period. Wahy on Earth do you want to complicate this issue when ANSI spent years on it and pretty much everyone has adopted it- NAR, NAHB, all the Appraisal organizations- including the assessors, Fannie Freddie, FHA!!!!!
Please understand that no one is saying the below grade space does not add as much to value if that is what your market tells you- but if you count it as GLA you are simply wrong. There is no black and white in this- THAT is why there is such a standard- BECAUSE there was so much confusion. Sheesh.
A report that shows the GLA correctly with an explanation is far more credible than one that makes it up as one goes along. I know of NO reviewer who would question a large adjustment for the basement given the nature of the space- and I know of none who would fail to question you if they knew it was below grade.
John W- you mentioned Palatine. Is that Palatine, IL? If so, I know a great deal about it. About the only areas in Palatine, IL that have such a set up are a couple of subdivisions on private lakes where there are numerous hillside ranches with the "public" areas below grade in walkout basements.
You would find raised ranches with the kitchens/living rooms, etc. beow grade in Streamwood and you will alomost always find good comps that are model matches in that area.
Brad
ginna currie
Junior Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- New York
Sorry, but in Brooklyn, NY, to enter the first floor of a typical brownstone, one has to walk down some stairs from street level.
This living space that is mostly below grade is usually an apartment(kitchen, full bath etc.) and it has a cellar beneath it. The parlor level is the second level and one has to walk up concrete steps to get to that.
Ergo, there are dwellings that are below grade living area and the zoning regulations in NYC(1916) preceed Fannie Mae and probably 35% of the homes in NYC were built before 1916. There are always an exception to the rule.
Just know the rules so you can break them properly.
This living space that is mostly below grade is usually an apartment(kitchen, full bath etc.) and it has a cellar beneath it. The parlor level is the second level and one has to walk up concrete steps to get to that.
Ergo, there are dwellings that are below grade living area and the zoning regulations in NYC(1916) preceed Fannie Mae and probably 35% of the homes in NYC were built before 1916. There are always an exception to the rule.
Just know the rules so you can break them properly.
Marcia Langley
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2005
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Missouri
Ginna,
First, I am a proponent of being consistent with local practice and being consistent with subject/comps.
But, since my area adheres strictly to below grade=basement, I have a question just out of curiosity.
Would an appraiser in NY mix the sort of structure you describe with similar GLA that is all above grade in the same report?
I mean, is there no market perception value difference between all above grade and part below grade houses?
First, I am a proponent of being consistent with local practice and being consistent with subject/comps.
But, since my area adheres strictly to below grade=basement, I have a question just out of curiosity.
Would an appraiser in NY mix the sort of structure you describe with similar GLA that is all above grade in the same report?
I mean, is there no market perception value difference between all above grade and part below grade houses?
Ginna,
I am personally familiar with NYC Brownstones and have been in dozens of them. What you describe is quite accurate; however, I would have to dispute your statement that appraisers n that area- especially in Brooklyn (and I read at least a dozen appraisal each month from that market) are counting the below grade space in GLA.
Rather, they are calling it a basement- as they should- and if it is another unit, then it is either called an accesory apartment (if legal) or an in-law or granny unit if not legal.
Whether or not it has a celler below or a sub-basement, the below grade space is still a basement.
Note that assessor records in various areas sometimes include the below grade space since they have not had the time nor the inclinatin to amend each and every record in their counties- however, their own professional organization, the IAAO, has adopted the ANSI standard as well. Further the brokers in that market are also calling this space a basement or basement unit.
Brad
I am personally familiar with NYC Brownstones and have been in dozens of them. What you describe is quite accurate; however, I would have to dispute your statement that appraisers n that area- especially in Brooklyn (and I read at least a dozen appraisal each month from that market) are counting the below grade space in GLA.
Rather, they are calling it a basement- as they should- and if it is another unit, then it is either called an accesory apartment (if legal) or an in-law or granny unit if not legal.
Whether or not it has a celler below or a sub-basement, the below grade space is still a basement.
Note that assessor records in various areas sometimes include the below grade space since they have not had the time nor the inclinatin to amend each and every record in their counties- however, their own professional organization, the IAAO, has adopted the ANSI standard as well. Further the brokers in that market are also calling this space a basement or basement unit.
Brad
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