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Looking For The Mentor's Perspective
- Thread starter Jonathan_Beni
- Start date
- Status
Jonathan_Beni
Freshman Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
Thanks for pointing that out, Hal. I'll update my profile.
I'm in the Boston, MA area, BTW.
I'm in the Boston, MA area, BTW.
vargasteve
Junior Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- California
Some excellent suggestions here, persons who would be able to add something like detailed marketing skills especially internet marketing, knowledge like networking or other technical skills that would truely elevate potential mentors office to a new level would be helpful.
For me when I started, I found out that I had contacts in the industry (since I was in sales for many years - people that I had worked with in various locations migrated into loans, they knew I was a hard worker and gave me a chance). So I was able to get my own work to a mentor & we had a win - win. That for me can almost top any of the suggestions (not an easy task, but not impossible). FYI - There are many problems with trainees who come 'with work' as far as the quality of that work. There are basically 3 areas where lenders typically pressure appraisers, and often friends and family contacts are may be the worse;
1 - fee's (they want you & your mentor to do difficult appraisals for normal fee’s, and normal work for below market fees)
2 - turn time (they want everything yesterday, even if they actually don’t need it yesterday-fire breathing dragons)
3 - value pressure (its all about the money)
It’s nice if you can find a quality client or not only will you experience how tough appraisal business can be you'll have to deal with the 3 factors above.
I'm sorry if any of this sounds negative in any way. In hiring a trainee for me its seems a few things repeat themselves;
1) Understanding that 2,000 hours is just a beginning - it’s a 3 - 4 year journey to some degree of competence (in a large enough area). Under estimating the task is a common blunder. Even if you can go on your own, a good fee split is a better option in many ways (understanding this is essential). You really will normally make less in a start up, unless its real boom time, and even then you’re wearing many hats and resulting stress. You need to 'be' & look for a mentor who also is a win-win employer who will offer competitive fee split as your skills mature, while understanding that in the beginning they can complete the assignments in less time without a trainee.
2) Many who would like to be 'an appraiser' have a lot of great skills (not appraising), and although they want to be 'an appraiser' they don't actually want to pay dues. The new field is an attempt to ‘move up’ not down. It’s a contradiction - you gotta be green & ready to grow with an ability to gut it out & penetrate thru the entry level pit falls & low/lower compensation.
3) Many who would like to be 'an appraiser' indeed do want to be competition and even if they think they don't show it, they kinda wear it on their sleeve. Find me someone who would want to hire the competition?
4) Many who are interested in appraising have been actually only been exposed to cookie cutter appraisal files, or have seen someone appraise their home and it looks easy. (and it does & is on tract homes, condos, townhome normally) (this of course is part of the reason I wanted to become an appraiser) Some of these individuals don’t have the realistic ‘view’, and get blown away by assignments with difficult factors. Light weight trainees are abundant, they wash out quick...
5) Many potential trainees do not have all the terminology DOWN. Someone who wants a job should be able to run off key appraisal theory definitions & explain everything (text book) about appraising to the point of blowing the mentor away. I can’t tell you how many trainees can’t explain substitution, when to add or subtract adjustments, understand depreciation, regression/progression, to mention a few.
6) Go to any office supply store & buy a pad with drawing grid. Learn how to draw a house like a pro. Ask everyone you know if you can draw their home, (Condo, townhome, and SFR, duplex). Try and do at least 10. You might think it’s easy, it's often NOT. If I’m looking for a trainee, part of the interview would be giving them a pad & pencil, along with a measure & asking them to draw my house on a 1' X 1' scale pad 'layout bond'
7) Practice typing - someone who can type is a plus. Try for 40 - 60 words per minute
8) If at all possible, spend like a week using an appraisal program typing until you’re actually able to get through an entire appraisal with some skill. They have sample appraisal files in every software vendors default, or use your own, or find them on some of the appraisers websites & download a sample copy. Print them out & type them until you can do so with a certain degree of skill.
If you can pass all these tests please call me or your nearest mentor.
9) Pay someone to train you for 30 days
10) Consider working free for a certain agreed on period
11) Get a grunt job in a real estate or title, or related office doing filing or something related to gain contacts.
12) Read a lot of threads on Appraiser USA
13) And oh yes, actually read an appraisal form in detail. Know each field to some degree.
14) Show up to interview with your licence in hand, measuring tools, maps for the area, sketch pad, pencils, 30,45 and 60 degree angle, flash light, large marble, mold kit, digital camera, shoes for walking in mud & dirt, dog bones, digital signature in hand GIF or JPeg,. Boy Scout motto - 'Be prepared'
Just a few hints - good luck. I'm accepting trainees who fit some if not all of these requirements.
:blueflower:
For me when I started, I found out that I had contacts in the industry (since I was in sales for many years - people that I had worked with in various locations migrated into loans, they knew I was a hard worker and gave me a chance). So I was able to get my own work to a mentor & we had a win - win. That for me can almost top any of the suggestions (not an easy task, but not impossible). FYI - There are many problems with trainees who come 'with work' as far as the quality of that work. There are basically 3 areas where lenders typically pressure appraisers, and often friends and family contacts are may be the worse;
1 - fee's (they want you & your mentor to do difficult appraisals for normal fee’s, and normal work for below market fees)
2 - turn time (they want everything yesterday, even if they actually don’t need it yesterday-fire breathing dragons)
3 - value pressure (its all about the money)
It’s nice if you can find a quality client or not only will you experience how tough appraisal business can be you'll have to deal with the 3 factors above.
I'm sorry if any of this sounds negative in any way. In hiring a trainee for me its seems a few things repeat themselves;
1) Understanding that 2,000 hours is just a beginning - it’s a 3 - 4 year journey to some degree of competence (in a large enough area). Under estimating the task is a common blunder. Even if you can go on your own, a good fee split is a better option in many ways (understanding this is essential). You really will normally make less in a start up, unless its real boom time, and even then you’re wearing many hats and resulting stress. You need to 'be' & look for a mentor who also is a win-win employer who will offer competitive fee split as your skills mature, while understanding that in the beginning they can complete the assignments in less time without a trainee.
2) Many who would like to be 'an appraiser' have a lot of great skills (not appraising), and although they want to be 'an appraiser' they don't actually want to pay dues. The new field is an attempt to ‘move up’ not down. It’s a contradiction - you gotta be green & ready to grow with an ability to gut it out & penetrate thru the entry level pit falls & low/lower compensation.
3) Many who would like to be 'an appraiser' indeed do want to be competition and even if they think they don't show it, they kinda wear it on their sleeve. Find me someone who would want to hire the competition?
4) Many who are interested in appraising have been actually only been exposed to cookie cutter appraisal files, or have seen someone appraise their home and it looks easy. (and it does & is on tract homes, condos, townhome normally) (this of course is part of the reason I wanted to become an appraiser) Some of these individuals don’t have the realistic ‘view’, and get blown away by assignments with difficult factors. Light weight trainees are abundant, they wash out quick...
5) Many potential trainees do not have all the terminology DOWN. Someone who wants a job should be able to run off key appraisal theory definitions & explain everything (text book) about appraising to the point of blowing the mentor away. I can’t tell you how many trainees can’t explain substitution, when to add or subtract adjustments, understand depreciation, regression/progression, to mention a few.
6) Go to any office supply store & buy a pad with drawing grid. Learn how to draw a house like a pro. Ask everyone you know if you can draw their home, (Condo, townhome, and SFR, duplex). Try and do at least 10. You might think it’s easy, it's often NOT. If I’m looking for a trainee, part of the interview would be giving them a pad & pencil, along with a measure & asking them to draw my house on a 1' X 1' scale pad 'layout bond'
7) Practice typing - someone who can type is a plus. Try for 40 - 60 words per minute
8) If at all possible, spend like a week using an appraisal program typing until you’re actually able to get through an entire appraisal with some skill. They have sample appraisal files in every software vendors default, or use your own, or find them on some of the appraisers websites & download a sample copy. Print them out & type them until you can do so with a certain degree of skill.
If you can pass all these tests please call me or your nearest mentor.
9) Pay someone to train you for 30 days
10) Consider working free for a certain agreed on period
11) Get a grunt job in a real estate or title, or related office doing filing or something related to gain contacts.
12) Read a lot of threads on Appraiser USA
13) And oh yes, actually read an appraisal form in detail. Know each field to some degree.
14) Show up to interview with your licence in hand, measuring tools, maps for the area, sketch pad, pencils, 30,45 and 60 degree angle, flash light, large marble, mold kit, digital camera, shoes for walking in mud & dirt, dog bones, digital signature in hand GIF or JPeg,. Boy Scout motto - 'Be prepared'
Just a few hints - good luck. I'm accepting trainees who fit some if not all of these requirements.
:blueflower:
Jonathan_Beni
Freshman Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
Folks,
I have concluded that although the profession of real estate appraisal might very well be suited for me, the process of becoming one does not.
I’d like to thank everyone who took time to respond to my query and to the creators of this discussion board. As discouraging as it may be at times, if it were not for you I would have been relying on information I got from various RE schools and other (bias, as it turns out) sources of information and would have probably been enlisted in one of them by now only to regret it later.
All the Best!
Jonathan Beni
I have concluded that although the profession of real estate appraisal might very well be suited for me, the process of becoming one does not.
I’d like to thank everyone who took time to respond to my query and to the creators of this discussion board. As discouraging as it may be at times, if it were not for you I would have been relying on information I got from various RE schools and other (bias, as it turns out) sources of information and would have probably been enlisted in one of them by now only to regret it later.
All the Best!
Jonathan Beni
Sharon Dossett
Sophomore Member
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Ohio
Jonathan
I have been a licensed assistant for 7 months and have had the luck of getting in with a large appraisal firm that treats me with respect, and not like the type of people you are getting information from on this forum.
The responses I have read, seem to be coming from arrogant, and disrespectful appraisers (that is if they are appraisers). The appraisers that are the old ones got in before they had to go to school, so all they have to offer is there own experiences, which if they were at all truthful, they would state that it took them time to learn all the things they want trainees to already have knowledge of. The ones that had to take state required courses had to get mentors to help them get into the business, then after they have been in a while a lot of them turn arrogant also!
My advise to you is that if you think you would be a good and ethical appraiser, and you feel the profession is for you, go for it! As it is with any business, the other guy does not want any competition, so they will say what ever it takes to avoid competition. Take your courses, if you haven't already, start making calls or sending letters and e-mails, and you will find a mentor that respects you. After
you get your license, maybe the old saying of "What goes around, comes around" will happen - you will take one of the clients of some of these arrogant ones out there.
The way to look at it is this way: The ones that do the best job, will get the work.
Good Luck!
I have been a licensed assistant for 7 months and have had the luck of getting in with a large appraisal firm that treats me with respect, and not like the type of people you are getting information from on this forum.
The responses I have read, seem to be coming from arrogant, and disrespectful appraisers (that is if they are appraisers). The appraisers that are the old ones got in before they had to go to school, so all they have to offer is there own experiences, which if they were at all truthful, they would state that it took them time to learn all the things they want trainees to already have knowledge of. The ones that had to take state required courses had to get mentors to help them get into the business, then after they have been in a while a lot of them turn arrogant also!
My advise to you is that if you think you would be a good and ethical appraiser, and you feel the profession is for you, go for it! As it is with any business, the other guy does not want any competition, so they will say what ever it takes to avoid competition. Take your courses, if you haven't already, start making calls or sending letters and e-mails, and you will find a mentor that respects you. After
you get your license, maybe the old saying of "What goes around, comes around" will happen - you will take one of the clients of some of these arrogant ones out there.
The way to look at it is this way: The ones that do the best job, will get the work.
Good Luck!
vargasteve
Junior Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- California
I would suppose that you’re mentioning my post - Sharon. I offer the following;
I personally actually worked for free for 1 month for an appraiser to get my start. No one would give me a start, so I offered - times were busy then '93', and soon I was working. Subsequently (3 - 4 months later), I moved on & I worked with a different mentor for 6 years, and continue to have a good relationship with him & his company, as well as the 1st mentor.
And, in addition I went out & got my own work right from the beginning. I worked for a shop w/12 people with only 2 of them were bringing in their own work (myself & 1 other), the remaining 10 worked on overflow files. Eventually, when it slowed we went down to 3 persons & I remained. I worked part time in an other industry during '94' - '97'.
It might sound arrogant to you, but I actually did the a certain majority of the proactive things I mentioned. Some I've heard of others doing... It was no easier for me to get my foot in the door than our fellow formites on this forum.
I'm not sure of the %'s but approx 80 - 90% of people that hold the trainee appraisers license don’t actually become one. In lue of those figures, finding ways to create a opening & penetrate through (wall that is thick sometimes) can be helpful. To you who has a job suggesting someone to be proactive might sound arrogant, it might sound like stooping. For me and the way I was brought up is 'when the going gets tough the tough get going'.
In the meantime I'll work on my delivery.
I recommend that anyone who really wants some thing is to never give up, and find an angle that sets you above the rest, and you will make it.
I personally actually worked for free for 1 month for an appraiser to get my start. No one would give me a start, so I offered - times were busy then '93', and soon I was working. Subsequently (3 - 4 months later), I moved on & I worked with a different mentor for 6 years, and continue to have a good relationship with him & his company, as well as the 1st mentor.
And, in addition I went out & got my own work right from the beginning. I worked for a shop w/12 people with only 2 of them were bringing in their own work (myself & 1 other), the remaining 10 worked on overflow files. Eventually, when it slowed we went down to 3 persons & I remained. I worked part time in an other industry during '94' - '97'.
It might sound arrogant to you, but I actually did the a certain majority of the proactive things I mentioned. Some I've heard of others doing... It was no easier for me to get my foot in the door than our fellow formites on this forum.
I'm not sure of the %'s but approx 80 - 90% of people that hold the trainee appraisers license don’t actually become one. In lue of those figures, finding ways to create a opening & penetrate through (wall that is thick sometimes) can be helpful. To you who has a job suggesting someone to be proactive might sound arrogant, it might sound like stooping. For me and the way I was brought up is 'when the going gets tough the tough get going'.
In the meantime I'll work on my delivery.
I recommend that anyone who really wants some thing is to never give up, and find an angle that sets you above the rest, and you will make it.
George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
I would say that if the (fairly restrained) responses to Jonathan's question were sufficient to enable him to come to the conclusion that the tribuations of the process weren't worth the payoff, then he got some great advice - for free. At least he was smart enough to find all this out before he spent any more time or money chasing the dream. I wish everyone would be so thoughtful. If more people did this kind of research, the number of Trainees in my state might not vastly exceed the number of Licensed Residential Appraisers.
Sharon's comment about having entered into the industry included a big qualifier - she stated she was "lucky". While I'm sure she made some of her own luck by being prepared enough to perform when the opportunity presented itself, we should also be realistic about how much of that kind of "luck" is even available to many aspiring appraisers. Unfortunately, not everyone is even going to be exposed to a legitimate trainee opportunity, at least not in the short run.
So Sharon, you're welcome to encourage everyone to follow their dream so long as you're also willing to reconcile that encouragement with the sure knowledge that 90+% of them do not stand a chance at making it to full licensure; and to that extent they are wasting precious time and money on the classes and licensing fees. (talk about a run-on sentence...)
Sharon's comment about having entered into the industry included a big qualifier - she stated she was "lucky". While I'm sure she made some of her own luck by being prepared enough to perform when the opportunity presented itself, we should also be realistic about how much of that kind of "luck" is even available to many aspiring appraisers. Unfortunately, not everyone is even going to be exposed to a legitimate trainee opportunity, at least not in the short run.
So Sharon, you're welcome to encourage everyone to follow their dream so long as you're also willing to reconcile that encouragement with the sure knowledge that 90+% of them do not stand a chance at making it to full licensure; and to that extent they are wasting precious time and money on the classes and licensing fees. (talk about a run-on sentence...)
vargasteve
Junior Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- California
The total suggestions of Sharon & 'TC' that they made available for potential appraisers grand total zero. Positive 'go for it', and you can do it, and follow your dream doesn't work for the majority of newbee's
It would be nice for Sharon or TC to offer suggestions that would facilitate fellow formites rising to the top. Someone who is sharp & determined to glean as much as possible from this forum has great advantages.
How does one separate oneself from the field??? Some would like to know how they (TC & Sharon) 'got lucky' or if they just had the right contact, or what type of ropes / hoops did you negotiate in the process - from a mentors perspective...
It would be nice for Sharon or TC to offer suggestions that would facilitate fellow formites rising to the top. Someone who is sharp & determined to glean as much as possible from this forum has great advantages.
How does one separate oneself from the field??? Some would like to know how they (TC & Sharon) 'got lucky' or if they just had the right contact, or what type of ropes / hoops did you negotiate in the process - from a mentors perspective...
- Status