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Looking For The Mentor's Perspective
- Thread starter Jonathan_Beni
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TC
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Pennsylvania
eats it's young?
All I see on this forum is good advice. Life ain't fair, nothing gets handed to anyone, unless you're born rich, which I have yet to meet an appraiser who was. This board is a wealth of information that I wish I would've had back in the 70's.
TC
All I see on this forum is good advice. Life ain't fair, nothing gets handed to anyone, unless you're born rich, which I have yet to meet an appraiser who was. This board is a wealth of information that I wish I would've had back in the 70's.
TC
George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
Okay Tina,
Since you seem to feel some of us are being too abrupt and casual about crushing the dreams of aspiring appraisers, how about giving us a specific example from this thread where one of us has talked down to someone else, or called them stupid, or treated them as if they were a child or done anything disprespectful.
If you come up with a clear example where one of the regulars has been disrespectful on this thread, that would probably carry a little more weight than a generalized comment about us eating our young.
Since you seem to feel some of us are being too abrupt and casual about crushing the dreams of aspiring appraisers, how about giving us a specific example from this thread where one of us has talked down to someone else, or called them stupid, or treated them as if they were a child or done anything disprespectful.
If you come up with a clear example where one of the regulars has been disrespectful on this thread, that would probably carry a little more weight than a generalized comment about us eating our young.
Tina
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Well George,
I went back through the thread and frankly couldn't find anything specificaly that was "disrespectful". I did however find a tone that was less than supportive and helpful....which I find disturbing.....rookies come here for support (which is to be commended and encouraged) and are met with blasts. Discouraging to say the least.....
Remember back when you were a rookie?????
TB
I went back through the thread and frankly couldn't find anything specificaly that was "disrespectful". I did however find a tone that was less than supportive and helpful....which I find disturbing.....rookies come here for support (which is to be commended and encouraged) and are met with blasts. Discouraging to say the least.....
Remember back when you were a rookie?????
TB
Kimberly Osborn
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2004
George and Tina,
I understand where you both come from on the point of approach on "how a post reads persay".
As a "veteran" in my current field and a newbie in appraising here I see it. Someone comes into my office and wants to know my job they can just take a leap
nfire: ...so I totally understand a newbie coming in here and people being standoffish on responses.
You really owe newbies nothing (unless they are a relative LOL) , but by being here you offer the opportunity to learn. Even if I never post another message I'll still learn so much valuable information just from reading this forum.
I don’t take offense to snap-ish posts, and thought everyone’s response on this thread was honest and upfront. What more else could a newbie want? :lol:
So bottom line should be:
"If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"...I personally don't like the view from the porch.
~k
I understand where you both come from on the point of approach on "how a post reads persay".
As a "veteran" in my current field and a newbie in appraising here I see it. Someone comes into my office and wants to know my job they can just take a leap
nfire: ...so I totally understand a newbie coming in here and people being standoffish on responses.You really owe newbies nothing (unless they are a relative LOL) , but by being here you offer the opportunity to learn. Even if I never post another message I'll still learn so much valuable information just from reading this forum.
I don’t take offense to snap-ish posts, and thought everyone’s response on this thread was honest and upfront. What more else could a newbie want? :lol:
So bottom line should be:
"If you can't hang with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"...I personally don't like the view from the porch.
~k
George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
Tina,
We must look at things very differently. To me, when someone asks an appraiser a straight question they deserves a straight, no-lie, this-is-how-it-really-is answer. To me, telling someone only what they want to hear in spite of the evidence to the contrary is the epitome of arrogance. Giving them false hope or withholding the complete story is condescending and disrespectful. Treating an adult like a child who is too young and unprepared for the truth is unprofessional and insulting.
Fair enough. We are not very supportive of all the people who wannabe. But seriously, should we be? There are so many people that want in and yet there is absolutely no market demand for them. The reason trainees outnumber Res Licensed Appraisers is not because nobody will take them in and train them. The reason is because the schools are pumping more of them out every month than our industry can ever absorb. Especially now that business is slowing down. Heck, over on the main forum there are already some veteran appraisers complaining about not having any work. This, despite our reticence to take on trainees. Our business is cyclical and in many areas of the nation the cycle is slowing down. Top that off with the inroads the AVMs are making into our business and the actual demand for appraisal services is on the decline. And you're advocating that we should be more supportive of people who want to join our ranks? Even if there was enough demand for more appraisers to affect the fee structure enough to economically justify taking them on - which there isn't - the type of person who needs emotional support and handholding doesn't have the drive and self-motivation and independence to be a good appraiser. The one personality trait that all sucessful appraisers share is that self-motivation and personal sense of independence. This job doesn't bestow independence on a person, it requires it.
Not everyone has what it takes to make it in this business; it's always been that way, but it's even more so now. We're headed into a period where only the very strong will survive - the weak will fail and have to find other means to get by. Economic Darwinism at its finest.
Those trainees who truly do have the need to do this will find a way to get through this process. Maybe they'll have to work in RE sales for 4 years before they transition; maybe they'll work for a Title Company or as a Home Inspector or as a mortgage broker or some other related field to get some exposure and work-related experience to make the jump. Or, maybe they'll take the short cut suggested here and do everything they can to make themselves better than the other 3,000 trainees in my state alone who want the same job. They'll master the software, they'll figure out how to measure and develop professional looking diagrams, they'll learn how to research data, and they'll develop their writing skills. Those trainees who have that burning desire to succeed will do all this pretty much on their own because they know they need to be a lot better than all the other 90-hour wonders in order to be ready for any opportunity that somehow comes up.
The trainee who finally does land that job is never going to do so as a result of being supported and nurtured on this forum. They're going to do it because they don't need any external influences to help them decide they're going to beat everyone else out for this. They'll do it because they need to do this job rather than because they simply think they might like it.
If a trainee has a reasonable question and they can't find it anywhere else, there will always be some people here who will take the time to give them a straight answer. It might not be rendered in supporting and nurturing terms, or be a sugar coated platitude intended to avoid the question or offer a false sense of hope, and it may not necessarily be the answer the trainee was looking for, but at least it will be a straight answer. If people are looking for the recruiting drive or for a motivational speech they've come to the wrong place. This is a site for appraisers, not sales people.
We must look at things very differently. To me, when someone asks an appraiser a straight question they deserves a straight, no-lie, this-is-how-it-really-is answer. To me, telling someone only what they want to hear in spite of the evidence to the contrary is the epitome of arrogance. Giving them false hope or withholding the complete story is condescending and disrespectful. Treating an adult like a child who is too young and unprepared for the truth is unprofessional and insulting.
Fair enough. We are not very supportive of all the people who wannabe. But seriously, should we be? There are so many people that want in and yet there is absolutely no market demand for them. The reason trainees outnumber Res Licensed Appraisers is not because nobody will take them in and train them. The reason is because the schools are pumping more of them out every month than our industry can ever absorb. Especially now that business is slowing down. Heck, over on the main forum there are already some veteran appraisers complaining about not having any work. This, despite our reticence to take on trainees. Our business is cyclical and in many areas of the nation the cycle is slowing down. Top that off with the inroads the AVMs are making into our business and the actual demand for appraisal services is on the decline. And you're advocating that we should be more supportive of people who want to join our ranks? Even if there was enough demand for more appraisers to affect the fee structure enough to economically justify taking them on - which there isn't - the type of person who needs emotional support and handholding doesn't have the drive and self-motivation and independence to be a good appraiser. The one personality trait that all sucessful appraisers share is that self-motivation and personal sense of independence. This job doesn't bestow independence on a person, it requires it.
Not everyone has what it takes to make it in this business; it's always been that way, but it's even more so now. We're headed into a period where only the very strong will survive - the weak will fail and have to find other means to get by. Economic Darwinism at its finest.
Those trainees who truly do have the need to do this will find a way to get through this process. Maybe they'll have to work in RE sales for 4 years before they transition; maybe they'll work for a Title Company or as a Home Inspector or as a mortgage broker or some other related field to get some exposure and work-related experience to make the jump. Or, maybe they'll take the short cut suggested here and do everything they can to make themselves better than the other 3,000 trainees in my state alone who want the same job. They'll master the software, they'll figure out how to measure and develop professional looking diagrams, they'll learn how to research data, and they'll develop their writing skills. Those trainees who have that burning desire to succeed will do all this pretty much on their own because they know they need to be a lot better than all the other 90-hour wonders in order to be ready for any opportunity that somehow comes up.
The trainee who finally does land that job is never going to do so as a result of being supported and nurtured on this forum. They're going to do it because they don't need any external influences to help them decide they're going to beat everyone else out for this. They'll do it because they need to do this job rather than because they simply think they might like it.
If a trainee has a reasonable question and they can't find it anywhere else, there will always be some people here who will take the time to give them a straight answer. It might not be rendered in supporting and nurturing terms, or be a sugar coated platitude intended to avoid the question or offer a false sense of hope, and it may not necessarily be the answer the trainee was looking for, but at least it will be a straight answer. If people are looking for the recruiting drive or for a motivational speech they've come to the wrong place. This is a site for appraisers, not sales people.
Randy Beigh
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
Everybody is right.
Tina, you are right that people who respond to a writer should be respectful. Everybody else is right in that they have the right to respond how they feel.
I have trained several people and take resumes from people all the time. Must have about 10 current resumes at the present time, with no plans to hire anybody in the immediate future. What does this mean? Should I give false hope to people that ask me for work or tell them the truth? And yet, I might need somebody tomorrow as an employee could resign, so who knows?
I, also, think this is a national forum and that means that some areas of the country are not good places to find work and some are better than others. One of the highest boom areas in the country is Las Vegas. Probably, a better chance of finding employement there than Butte, Montana. Just guessing.
Jonathan
The answers to each of your questions are below.
"Is this decision related to a specific candidate or do you decide that you want a trainee and then look for a suitable one?
I look for a suitable one. However, I have been known to give opportunity to people who haven't had much going for them. That, ususally, doesn't work, but sometimes it does.
"What would be some of the essential characteristics you would be looking for in a candidate?"
Character. Not an easy to thing to define. I'm probably dysfunctional on this. I start with experience, but oftentimes wind up with something along the lines of "Can I work with this person".
"Would you even consider a trainee who has not yet acquired his/her trainee license?"
In Washington state, we do not have a trainee's license, so the answer is yes.
"Would you consider prior acquaintance with the trainee essential?"
I have often stated that trainees should attend appraisal group meetings so they can meet and network with other appraisers. I have hired 2 people through those meetings, so the answer is not yes or no. The answer is use all the resources available to you and if going to meetings and paying for a dinner or lunch so you can get with the people that do the hiring, do it.
"Is the candidate’s age a deciding factor? (Looking for an honest answer here, not the politically correct one… )"
No. I don't care if your're 15 or 50. Well, 15 could be a problem.
Most can't drive for beans and worse, they can't read a map. :rainfro:
Another thing I look at is the person's stability in life. Some people are drunks in their private life. Had one that never paid his rent and kept getting evicted. His last landlord started showing up here for his rent, 2 to 3 times a week. High maintenance employees will soon find themselves gone.
Tina, you are right that people who respond to a writer should be respectful. Everybody else is right in that they have the right to respond how they feel.
I have trained several people and take resumes from people all the time. Must have about 10 current resumes at the present time, with no plans to hire anybody in the immediate future. What does this mean? Should I give false hope to people that ask me for work or tell them the truth? And yet, I might need somebody tomorrow as an employee could resign, so who knows?
I, also, think this is a national forum and that means that some areas of the country are not good places to find work and some are better than others. One of the highest boom areas in the country is Las Vegas. Probably, a better chance of finding employement there than Butte, Montana. Just guessing.
Jonathan
The answers to each of your questions are below.
"Is this decision related to a specific candidate or do you decide that you want a trainee and then look for a suitable one?
I look for a suitable one. However, I have been known to give opportunity to people who haven't had much going for them. That, ususally, doesn't work, but sometimes it does.
"What would be some of the essential characteristics you would be looking for in a candidate?"
Character. Not an easy to thing to define. I'm probably dysfunctional on this. I start with experience, but oftentimes wind up with something along the lines of "Can I work with this person".
"Would you even consider a trainee who has not yet acquired his/her trainee license?"
In Washington state, we do not have a trainee's license, so the answer is yes.
"Would you consider prior acquaintance with the trainee essential?"
I have often stated that trainees should attend appraisal group meetings so they can meet and network with other appraisers. I have hired 2 people through those meetings, so the answer is not yes or no. The answer is use all the resources available to you and if going to meetings and paying for a dinner or lunch so you can get with the people that do the hiring, do it.
"Is the candidate’s age a deciding factor? (Looking for an honest answer here, not the politically correct one… )"
No. I don't care if your're 15 or 50. Well, 15 could be a problem.
Most can't drive for beans and worse, they can't read a map. :rainfro: Another thing I look at is the person's stability in life. Some people are drunks in their private life. Had one that never paid his rent and kept getting evicted. His last landlord started showing up here for his rent, 2 to 3 times a week. High maintenance employees will soon find themselves gone.
Kate
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- New Hampshire
Not THIS again :rainfro: Didn't we talk about this a year ago, six months ago and oh ya, two months ago.
Bottom line if ya can't take the heat.......you know the rest.
It's all true. There are people who will resent newbies. Heck the first month I started checking in on this forum I was told I would never be a good appraiser b/c of my spelling.
I have also been repromanded for asking dumb questions.
It's called water folks and yes it does roll off the back if you let it. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't call people on what they say if they are down right rude. But ya must relax - don't let it get to you.
Truth be told. If you give up the forum your carreer will suffer. I truely believe that. There are GREAT people on this forum who VOLUNTEER thier time to help you and me (perfect strangers).
So.........until next month when we talk about this again.........don't worry folks be happy!
Jonathan_Beni
Freshman Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
Since I am the one who started this going, I'd like to add a couple of comments.
For me, becoming a RE appraiser wasn’t a dream of a life time. At the age of 40 and after immigrating from Israel to the U.S. for very personal reasons, I had to take a long hard look at my career history and decide if I wanted to start on the same path here. I realized that almost regardless of what it is I pursuit, it would be basically starting from scratch, so for the first time in my life I decided to undergo a series of occupational evaluations and (to my surprise) they all pointed in the direction of real estate appraisal.
I knew very little about the profession so I started reading and researching and lo and behold it indeed seemed like a perfect match to my personality and occupational preferences. I started to get excited.
My excitement started to subside when I took a look at the statistics. The projected growth rate of the profession, the average earnings, etc. But, I said to myself, if you are good at what you do all those don’t matter… Lets do it!
I started contacting RE schools.
Yes, they said, two weeks of basic courses and you are on your way to a very promising profitable career!
“Two weeks?” I asked “That’s all? What about formal education? Collage degree?”
“No, non of that is required. All you need is to find a mentor to train you for the first two years. Would you like to register now?”
“Hold on, is there a demand in the market for appraisers?”
“We don’t have any statistics. Would you like to register now?”
“What about mentorship, are your students able to find mentors?”
“We haven’t had any complaints so far. Would you like to register now?”
“No thanks, let me call you back”
… And then I came across this board and the rest is history.
Yes, I did find the information here discouraging but also very beneficial and with one exception I didn’t find any of the posts arrogant.
I simply do not have the financial resources that would allow me to spend the next 3 – 4 years trying to establish myself in this profession and have decided to pursuit my original career in financial planning.
Again, I thank everyone who took time to respond to my inquiry.
Jonathan
For me, becoming a RE appraiser wasn’t a dream of a life time. At the age of 40 and after immigrating from Israel to the U.S. for very personal reasons, I had to take a long hard look at my career history and decide if I wanted to start on the same path here. I realized that almost regardless of what it is I pursuit, it would be basically starting from scratch, so for the first time in my life I decided to undergo a series of occupational evaluations and (to my surprise) they all pointed in the direction of real estate appraisal.
I knew very little about the profession so I started reading and researching and lo and behold it indeed seemed like a perfect match to my personality and occupational preferences. I started to get excited.
My excitement started to subside when I took a look at the statistics. The projected growth rate of the profession, the average earnings, etc. But, I said to myself, if you are good at what you do all those don’t matter… Lets do it!
I started contacting RE schools.
Yes, they said, two weeks of basic courses and you are on your way to a very promising profitable career!
“Two weeks?” I asked “That’s all? What about formal education? Collage degree?”
“No, non of that is required. All you need is to find a mentor to train you for the first two years. Would you like to register now?”
“Hold on, is there a demand in the market for appraisers?”
“We don’t have any statistics. Would you like to register now?”
“What about mentorship, are your students able to find mentors?”
“We haven’t had any complaints so far. Would you like to register now?”
“No thanks, let me call you back”
… And then I came across this board and the rest is history.
Yes, I did find the information here discouraging but also very beneficial and with one exception I didn’t find any of the posts arrogant.
I simply do not have the financial resources that would allow me to spend the next 3 – 4 years trying to establish myself in this profession and have decided to pursuit my original career in financial planning.
Again, I thank everyone who took time to respond to my inquiry.
Jonathan
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