Lot Size

[Otis Key]

The realtors on both sides were present for the third appraisal and was repeatedly told of the lot size issue and was provided with the survey days prior to the appointment.

I agree with Randy in that details tend to be omitted until later on in postings. It's unfortunate in that it could save time and answers. That not withstanding, I would assume that:

1. The appraiser might feel that the extra land is either not usable or is considered to be a superadequacey and felt the easiest way to address it was to ignore it (wrong way, but?????);
2. The appraiser is defensive because the work is done now;
3. The appraiser knows something more about the excess site area that is pertinent to not including it; or
4. The survey wasn't provided (I'm not questioning your honesty or statement) in a timely manner for the report.

If the appraiser had the survey and ignored it for the analysis, then I would think that you might have a valid position to file a complaint with the state. I would attempt to resolve it with him/her first but then move on with the complaint. Also, I think that I agree with Janet. Three appraisals and no one is happy. Sounds like what I run into all the time.

 

[Randy Beigh]

Wes,

None of us have any idea about the value or if you should continue to argue.

But, I am concerned that you had a survey done and the appraiser ignored that. That does not make sense, nor does it make it sense that with a survey 3 different came out with different sizes. Geez, what good is the survey if nobody is going to read or abide by it?

Is there more to this story?

 

[hastalavista]

Originally posted by Wes Stewart@Dec 12 2005, 01:36 PM
Our question here is do we continue to argue this or is it even worth it for us to argue.

Wes-

The only practical reason for arguing is if the difference in lot size results in a significant difference in the Value Opinion.

Unfortunatley, to decide that, you need an appraisal (of which, you have three already).

Everyone on this website agrees that an accurate lot size is appropriate- if given a verified plat map or survey from the title company or surveyor, I would certainly incorporate that into my analysis and then determine if that has any influence on the value.

$17k is roughly 5% of the value of the house. IF there is additional value for the lot size, I would certainly consider arguing for its consideration.

Good luck (please let us know what happened)!

 

[Wes Stewart]

Thanks for your help so far on this matter. I wish I knew if there was more to the story. We are unable to speak directly with the appraisers and can only communicate through a third party (the realtors). We are very concerned and very confused with how these appraisals are being conducted. Without a reasonable explanation from these appraisers we are unsure what steps to take next, if any. It seems that neither of the last two appraisers measured the property or the platt map for consideration and we don't understand why when they have been made aware of the issues surrounding the tax records.

 

[Jim Lusk]

I don't know how this applies (nor am I an expert AT ALL as I am just starting out in this business), but my moderately sized tract house sits on an oversize lot (10,500 sq ft) versus the usual 6,000-8,000 in the neighborhood. I did not closely inspect any of the appraisals we have had until this last one. I can't even remember if this last one had an adjustment for lot size, but it really doesn't seem to matter much to home buyers in this area. Most of them seem very happy with a smaller lot (a certified car nut like me NEEDS a large lot or more). And, as I understand it, market reaction by buyers is what affects adjustments. And that is why it is important for the appraiser to know the area he/she is appraising.

Well, all you experienced folks. How'd I do with my answer?

 

[George Hatch]

In my opinion an error is an error. I try not to make errors but I'm far from perfect and sometimes I do make errors. If/when those errors are discovered, it's in my best interests to correct those errors ASAP. It is not in my best interests to argue that the error should stand just I think it doesn't effect the rest of my appraisal. The only thing that's going to happen as a result of me not fixing an error is that if there is a difference of opinion about the value of the property that difference is usually attributed to my error whether that's the problem or not.

This is an outside possibility, but it's also possible the appraiser adjusted the comparables based on the subject's usable lot area rather than the gross area that includes some unusable area. From your description it sounds like you may have some lot utility issues with that site. Anyways, if the appraisr did base their analysis on usable lot area, the gross lot area may already be correctly reported in the site description section of the report and the adjustment grid in the Sales Comparison may be showing the usable lot area. A casual reader who is not reading the entire report might miss the part where the appraiser talks about lot utility and explains that they're using usable area for analytical purposes. Unless I'd actually read the entire report myself I wouldn't automatically assume that the person who's relaying this information to me has their facts straight. They may be right, but then again they may be wrong. It's happened before.

Either way, even if the missing 6,000 SqFt is 100% usable I kinda doubt that it's going to make up a $17k difference in a $343k appraisal. But that's just an uninformed doubt developed in a market far away from your's, and I wouldn't pretend to know.

 

[Bill Baughn]

Open mouth stick foot in...here we go...

First thing I see is that someone needs new batteries in their calculators. Lot size is 21,000± sf and the report in question says it is just under 16,000± sf. Last time I checked that was about 5,000± sf. Unless they changed things on me, there are 43,560 sf in an acre? Take your 5,000 and divide it by your acre and you get 11.48% which is less than half of the 1/4 acre the owner was complaining about in the first post! Right off the bat, the owner and real estate agents are wrong.

Now about this creek. Reminds me of my first listing many years ago. 5 acre parcel of land with a road running down one side such that 1 acre was in the creek (good for grazing horses I was told on the phone) and the other 3.5 acres on the other side of the road (the road took up 1/2 an acre in case you were wondering). On paper everything looked fine until you got to the property and looked at the creek from the side of the road and noticed that it was a 50' drop straight down to the creek which was all rock (not much good for grazing and definiitely not accessable). How much of the land is inaccessable because of the creek? Is it a year-around creek? Does the creek have any benefits?

Personally I think this can only be cured by the appraisers who are local...right now we all are second guessing what the situation is and why thing are the way they are.

We don't know how long it was between the first and third appraisal. It could have been six months or a year. Property values could have gone down in that time. Maybe the first appraiser was shooting for a number to please someone? Maybe the third appraiser did his job right and found the right comps? If they liked the first appraisal so much, why didn't they go back to him and have him reappraise the property when it sold? Everyone is assuming the third appraiser screwed up because that is what the homeowner wants you to think. He is only telling you the things he is mad about. We are not getting the whole picture here!!!


Bill Baughn

 

[Bill Baughn]

Originally posted by Denis DeSaix@Dec 12 2005, 01:06 PM
Everyone on this website agrees that an accurate lot size is appropriate- if given a verified plat map or survey from the title company or surveyor,

Dennis,

Not everyone on this website agrees that a verified plat map tells the whole story...


Bill Baughn

 

[Randy Beigh]

Not everyone on this website agrees that a verified plat map tells the whole story...

But, a legal survey does and the owner has stated that there was a survey done. Why is no one paying attention to it? Realtors and appraisers are coming up different figures and that makes no sense when there is a survey.

 

[Otis Key]

Originally posted by Randy Beigh@Dec 12 2005, 12:56 PM

It seems like most of the time when people write in here, they leave out pertinent details, which they add later on. You had a survey done? The appraiser ignored it? Whoa. I wouldn't do that.

Also, the creek could have value and or put the site in a flood zone.

I don't think he said he gave it to the appraiser. I read that the agents received the survey.

The realtors on both sides were present for the third appraisal and was repeatedly told of the lot size issue and was provided with the survey days prior to the appointment.

Beyond that aspect, I wonder where this sits now after a few days and we haven't seen Wes come back and post the results.