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Lot Size

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Originally posted by Wes Stewart@Dec 16 2005, 10:29 AM
the buyers appraisal came in so much lower they were not content to pay a price above their appraisal value
Mr. Stewart,

Clearly you are not from my area (Las Vegas). People here all through 2004 paid way more than the appraised value. Common line found on most contracts was that SALE PRICE NOT TO BE CONTIGENT UPON APPRAISED VALUE. Agents started putting this in once they realized that they were selling the homes way above what the homes could possible be appraised for by a good appraiser. Mind you, Skippy always found a way to hit the number.


Bill Baughn
 
Originally posted by Wes Stewart@Dec 16 2005, 12:29 PM
Yes, we agree, Jim. We had a contract of $361,500 but when the buyers appraisal came in so much lower they were not content to pay a price above their appraisal value even though they were putting down enough money that the lender was still willing to lend them the loan for the contract price. Which is where the third appraisal came into play. We appreciate all the professional advice and insight you all have provided. It is good to hear the thoughts on this situation from an appraiser's point of view.
Wes, please understand that appraisers are people also and we have been known to make a mistake occasionally (thankfully I'm still waiting for mine to happen :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: ). The reason I'm posting this is to let you know that we know what the profession and job require but we are just like everyone else and put our pants on one leg at a time also. I do hope that the feed back that we gave you helped ease some of your concerns and helps you understand more. Hope you have a better holiday season than the past one.
 
Wes, most of the posters here have given you good and reliable advice. Of course, now you may know a lot more about the complexities of real estate appraisal than you really wanted to... ;)

There are two things that stand out in my mind here. The first is that the appraiser apparently had a survey and refused to use it... incorrect methodology in my opinion. Additionally, the appraiser misquoted Fannie guidelines, which require an accurate determination of site size, but definitely do not require a specific source, such as the tax record. Whether this error on the part of the appraiser resulted in an incorrect or misleading value conclusion is something we on the Forum cannot know without a full review of the appraisal.

So, in relation to the first issue, the appraiser was apparently wrong. Whether that error is significant enough for you to turn it in to the state appraisal board is another question I cannot answer without more facts.

The second issue, which no one here seemed to jump on was whether there was additional developable land. Several people mentioned, correctly, that a larger site size does not necessarly have much impact on value. To reconcile this in your own mind, consider a property with a larger than typical site put on the market. Now assume that half of the participants in the market like a large lot... however, the other half of the participants in that particular market are elderly people or others, who, for whatever reason, want a small lot with less mowing. What is the effect from the market on value? Minimal at best in a scenario like that .

However, you mentioned additional land that could be developed. In such a case, a property often has excess site value. In other words, going back to the example above, the half of the people who want a small site could split the additional land off and sell it. Because you did not give enough information, we cannot actually know whether a split would be legally allowable, and if so, whether it would be practical and possible. But, if it is, then it should have properly been included as excess land value in the appraisal.

If that is really the case, then the appraiser may have made a significant error, which resulted in a misleading report and an incorrect value conclusion. The Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice, what we call USPAP, says, in Standard 1-1 ( b ) that the appraiser must:

"not commit a substantial error of omission or commission that significantly affects an appraisal"

and in 1-1 ( c ) that an appraiser must:

"not render appraisal services in a careless or negligent manner, such as by making a series of errors that, although individually might not significantly affect the results of an appraisal, in the aggregate affects the credibility of those results."

I believe it is significant that these are the second and third statements in the first standard that appraisers must follow.

As I said before, we really don't have enough information to judge the appraisal you have called into question. But, we do have two facts that are important. The appraiser made an error and the appraiser misquoted regulations to try and cover the error.

If you have a copy of the appraisal, you could take a complaint to the state board that regulates appraisers. Whether to do that will be something you have to decide for yourself. However, be aware, if you do, that the board is not likely to be concerned with your complaint that the value was wrong, but rather will look to whether the appraiser violated one of the rules above or some other portion of USPAP or state regulations. In other words, filing a complaint is a rather technical matter.

I wish you well and hope that this experience has not soured you on appraisers or appraisal. It is important to remember that what you get when you pay for an appraisal is an opinion. It is not actually all that unusual for two different appraisers to look at the same data and come up with slightly different opinions. However, they should be competent, and it is at least possible, from the information given, that the appraiser who refuse the survey information was not.
 
Did the survey show the total square footage of the site on the map that was drawn? A multi-sided map is difficult to determine the exact square footage. I would think that the private surveyor, as well as the county surveyor (who is responsible for reporting this data to the assessor) has the device (I forget it's name) that you run along the perimter of the map and it automatically calculates the square footage. If not, either the private surveyor or the county surveyor could have made an error. That said, the third appraiser was remiss in not noting that there was a signicant difference in the reported lot size. If I were you, I would get a letter from the private surveyor stating the calculated lot size. Assessor maps are typically drawn when a proposed subdivision is submitted to the planning department for approval. It would not be unusual if the developer found some reason to change those lot lines for the final map. In the overall scope of the project, a change made to 2 or 3 lots might not be significant and didn't get the attention of the assessor's office. Therefore, it is a very bad idea to use assessor data as a certainty and there is NO Fannie Mae requirement to use that data. However, if you report a specific square footage of a site and it is significantly different than what is shown by the assessor's records, you do have to explain that difference and why you used what you used.
 
Originally posted by Steve Owen@Dec 18 2005, 10:32 AM
The second issue, which no one here seemed to jump on was whether there was additional developable land. Several people mentioned, correctly, that a larger site size does not necessarly have much impact on value.
It was caught and noted, but with just different scenarios and verbiage. Still, additional information and clarification doesn't hurt.
 
As I read it, the 1st appraisal was "adjusted" to show the additional land was unuseable and in the creek.

The first apprasial came in at $360,000 and used the correct lot size adjusted for what they call unuseable (the property line goes into the creek).

The size appraised in this third appraisal is 15,914 sq ft mol when the entire lot has measured to just over 21,000 sq ft mol including the unuseable property in the creek.

The creek bank is steep and we are not in a flood zone and do not need flood insurance.


Indicating to me that Appraiser #1 agreed with Wes that the unuseable land in the creek had value and Appraiser #2 and Appraiser #3 felt the unuseable land had no value. :shrug:
 
I am willing to bet that Wes has closed the loan, moved in, put up a Christmas tree and has his feet propped up by the fire ..... and we are still here talking about it .... :rofl: :rofl:
 
Janet, many different interpretations are possible from the given information... I just wanted to point out another possible scenario.

Of course we are, Doug. Point is, although none of us really know because none of us reviewed it, that appraiser might have gone beyond having a different opinion, all the way to careless error. It's something worth talking about because, personally, I think the careless practitioners do our profession more damage than the out-and-out fraudulent operators. Why? Because actual fraud is rare and often gets caught, while carelessness is common and usually doesn't.
 
Good humor, Doug. We have signed the contract with the price of the third appraisal and are moving on. We are disappointed that we didn't feel like we were fairly represented. After 3 appraisals and lots of addendums made to the contract, we weren't making any progress in arguing the issue any further and with not knowing whether anything would change if we continued to argue, we decided it was time to move on. But I continue to be interested in reading all the replies posted. Thanks for your insight!
 
Brother Steve, I wouldn't argue that point at all. We are all shooting in the dark on this one. If it was negligence, or just plan lying, then the appraiser should be shot. (or to a lesser degree, shot at), but as you say, without actually reviewing the report or being familiar with the area, we just really can't say for sure what the deal is. :shrug: Trust me, I am neither defending nor prosecuting the appraisers on this deal, because there just isn't enough info to do either.

Wes ... bittersweet news, I guess. A new home for Christmas, but not sure if you got pogied or not... Hard spot to be in, I'm sure ... Congrats on your new home, nonetheless, and Merry Christmas to you and your family.
 
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