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More AMC and PDC Bull

40% fewer loans. See CFPB data I posted earlier. The best months (volume wise) over the past three years is worse than the worst months in the decade before COVID.

See figure 1A
We are not stupid ! We are aware that when loan volume is down, appraisal income goes down.

However, what you fail to acknowledge is that because of AMC fee predation, the income loss is even greater to the appraiser in a low volume cycle -though appraisers lose $ when doing AMC in both slow and busy market cycles.
 
It does not matter what system is used to deliver payment to the appraiser, if appraisers keep accepting/charging "lower fees" then lower fees will persist. That is how markets work.

And, professionals are not exempt. There is a dentist in town who lost me as a patient over her fees.
Wow, you seem like a nice guy, but also seem incapable of honest discourse on this topic. I suppose showing up here for the other side you kind of have to frame it a certain way.

The AMC fee split is not a "system to deliver payment. " The fee split allowing a lender a free of hard cost for the AMC service sees the AMC compensated by keeping as much $ of the appraisal fee the borrower paid the lender for the appraisal

I am not aware of any other business, anywhere, that enjoys the huge market share the AMC's get by a government-allowed fee split ( HUD bundled fee ) that lets a business get compensated form its vendors ( the appraisers ) ,said business thus not having to charge its customers ( the lender is the AMC customer ) a hard cost.

Would lenders use AMC's in such large volume if the lender had to pay the AMC a hard cost for the AMC service?

Comparing it to your dentist is ludicrous. Your dentist is a professional in the free market, and if you drop them, that dentist has access to tens of thousands or more of potential customers . Maybe some other folks think the higher price dentist is worth it, maybe others do not. If she prices herself out of the market, she can correct her price to market levels, not have to vastly underprice to get patients.

It is completely different from regulated mortgage appraisals, where appraisers are typically paid the same $ fee when a lender or wholesaler/bank orders direct, and then that same appraiser might only get paid half that amount when an AMC is involved.
 
Wow, you seem like a nice guy, but also seem incapable of honest discourse on this topic. I suppose showing up here for the other side you kind of have to frame it a certain way.

The AMC fee split is not a "system to deliver payment. " The fee split allowing a lender a free of hard cost for the AMC service sees the AMC compensated by keeping as much $ of the appraisal fee the borrower paid the lender for the appraisal

I am not aware of any other business, anywhere, that enjoys the huge market share the AMC's get by a government-allowed fee split ( HUD bundled fee ) that lets a business get compensated form its vendors ( the appraisers ) ,said business thus not having to charge its customers ( the lender is the AMC customer ) a hard cost.

Would lenders use AMC's in such large volume if the lender had to pay the AMC a hard cost for the AMC service?

Comparing it to your dentist is ludicrous. Your dentist is a professional in the free market, and if you drop them, that dentist has access to tens of thousands or more of potential customers . Maybe some other folks think the higher price dentist is worth it, maybe others do not. If she prices herself out of the market, she can correct her price to market levels, not have to vastly underprice to get patients.

It is completely different from regulated mortgage appraisals, where appraisers are typically paid the same $ fee when a lender or wholesaler/bank orders direct, and then that same appraiser might only get paid half that amount when an AMC is involved.
I am being 100% honest with you; you think I am not because of your deep belief in things that are demonstrable false.

You have built positions from false premises, and you think you know more about AMCs than people who have actually worked in senior management at multiple AMCs. So, you just keep believing whatever you wish. I promise you that I will not try to confuse you with actual facts any longer. If you want to ignore basic economics and live in a fantasyland where a small handful of folks control the work, that is fine. But you will never be able to bring about real change as long as you start from a position that is fundamentally wrong. In the meantime, many appraisers will keep lowering fees, because that is the only way they know how to market.

Peace.
 
The AMCs do separate and disclose the fees; they report that to the lender. When I was in AMCland we worked with hundreds of lenders, and they all required that breakdown. The lenders are fully aware.

The disclosure to the borrower is prepared by the lender, not the AMC.
Bull. AMC’s do not disclose back to the lender what they ended up paying the lowest bidder. I know you have been out of the field for a couple of decades but this how the AMC thievery works: The appraiser (as an example) is paid $275 after bidding, but the AMC charged $700 for the appraisal and a $150 management fee. The AMC disclosed a $700 appraisal fee and the $150 appraisal management fee to the lender. The lender disclosed a $700 appraisal fee and a $150 appraisal management fee to the borrower. The appraisal fee is a flat out lie. The exception is the cost plus AMCs, which are few and far between. And it doesn't matter who prepares the disclosure, the borrower is being lied to and misled.
 
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I strongly doubt the number of appraisers leaving parallels the reduction in demand. I know that hasn't been the case in my state.

2021 newsletter indicating to ~5900 SL+CR licensees. 04/2026 stats indicate to 4627. The volumes in this state are down by 50% or more compared to 2021.

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I am being 100% honest with you; you think I am not because of your deep belief in things that are demonstrable false.

You have built positions from false premises, and you think you know more about AMCs than people who have actually worked in senior management at multiple AMCs. So, you just keep believing whatever you wish. I promise you that I will not try to confuse you with actual facts any longer. If you want to ignore basic economics and live in a fantasyland where a small handful of folks control the work, that is fine. But you will never be able to bring about real change as long as you start from a position that is fundamentally wrong. In the meantime, many appraisers will keep lowering fees, because that is the only way they know how to market.

Peace.
Tell me exactly what is false that I have posted about how AMC 's are paid ( they get compensated from a split of the appraisal fee ))
Or how it allows lenders a free-of-cost service.
Please cite what is false that I have posted.

Wrt your being honest, maybe that was a bit harsh- but my impression is that due to your long history of managing a large AMC and current position, you may have to frame the information a certain way.

Basic economics is that when the AMC gets compensated from a fee split out of the borrower-paid appraisal fee ( the bundled fee on the HUD ) rather than their lender customer paying a cost out of their own operating funds for the AMC service, that gives the AMC a huge market share. I asked you if you thought the lenders would use AMCs in the volume they do if the lender had to pay a cost to the AMC and you did not answer.

A relatively small number of AMC companies do control a large volume of lender work. AI and other sources that track mortgage work confirm it. It stands to reason, given that individual loan officers can no longer select the appraiser and the lenders outsource to a limited number of AMC's. Even if hundreds of AMC's are registered, that is still a very limited number of ordering channels, and the fact is that a smaller number of the largest AMC's order more of the volume.

Blaming it on the appraisers for lowering their fees because it is the only way they know how to market, I asked where else the work is outside of the AMC's for most res appraisers, and there was no answer.

When a bulk of work is driven by selecting for low fees, then the response is that certain appraisers will lower their fees. I wish they would not- hwoever it is hard to reconlie why appraiser selection for taxpayer-backed mortgages worth hundreds of thousands of dollars each have been reduced to a flea market of bidding where lower fees win an order to profit an AMC, because often the more experienced appraisers are bypassed and many competent appraisers refuse to do AMC work, which deprives borrowers of their services.

Switching to the lender pays a cost for the AMC service would solve the fee issue, and the AMC can select them based on quality, expeirence, geo proximity, etc.
 
I am being 100% honest with you; you think I am not because of your deep belief in things that are demonstrable false.

You have built positions from false premises, and you think you know more about AMCs than people who have actually worked in senior management at multiple AMCs. So, you just keep believing whatever you wish. I promise you that I will not try to confuse you with actual facts any longer. If you want to ignore basic economics and live in a fantasyland where a small handful of folks control the work, that is fine. But you will never be able to bring about real change as long as you start from a position that is fundamentally wrong. In the meantime, many appraisers will keep lowering fees, because that is the only way they know how to market.

Peace.
In your opinion, how would "real change" come about?
I have worked for lenders that order direct and for lenders that order through an AMC ( one lender did both for a while, and the same order would have a fee of $200 lower from the AMC ).
Perhaps the only way real change ( restoration of appraisal fees with no AMC split ) would occur from a massive media expose or a lawsuit. In the meantime, the field offers such bleak earning prospects on the res lending side that few are entering because the reality is the bulk of volume for a res license is and continues to be mortgage lending work. Few are entering for a res license despite PAREA, and those who enter might not continue. This will reduce the number of appraisers, which might force a bit higher fees on the AMC side, but that is a steep price to pay if that is what it takes- denying a new generation a good career opportunity and not having the more talented young folks enter a field that badly needs smart, talented people.
 
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Only the govt can kill it.
 
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