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Steve,

Thanks. You answered two of the questions, but both need further clarification.

You did say you sued Raila and won by default. How much did you win?

You did say you used all 25 comps to value the various subject properties. Of the 25, how many actually appeared on the reports- in aggregate?

Brad
 
Brad: With all due respects, and sticking strictly to the facts as pointed out in this thread, I am beginning to have serious questions about your motives in this discourse. I base this opinion on the following line of reasoning. I know no more about Steve’s case than what I have read on this thread.
First: There is a total lack of balance in what Steve is charged with and the actions taken against him by OREB. The facts of the case as I have heard them at most would call for a letter of reprimand saying, “Be more careful next time Steve.” An 8-year-on-going case at a cost to Steve of over $50,000, over an issue originally based on a standard that no longer exist and some trumped up crap about not using all 150 comparable sales which is clearly not required. In my mind there is a piece of this puzzle missing and I think I know what it is:
Second: The questions you are asking Steve in above posts indicate that you are holding a probable cause hearing and are digging for something to hang Steve on. In other words, it appears that you have assumed Steve is guilty and you have set out to get him to make your case for you. Those questions you asked in the above post are nothing in my mind but an attempt to muddy up the water or to parry the issue away from the subject. Like a mama bird that pretends to have a broken wing to lead an adversary away from the nest. Either you know something you are not telling the rest of us, or you are covering up for somebody on the OREB.
If you are going to hold an investigation on this thread, why don’t you tell us what the charge is and then maybe we can see some reason for this line of questioning. If this line of questioning were taking place in a court of law and I was the judge, I would step in here and ask, “Where are you going with these questions Mr. Ellis? If you want to hold a trial you should first get an indictment based on some charge because as of this moment, I am more suspicious of your motives than I am of the apparent object of your inquiry.”
 
Austin:

Bingo, Austin I think you may be on the right track. Ask Brad if the OBRE takes photographs of all of the appraisers who are licenced in Illinois? Ask him if they can tell the racial make-up of the person they have a photograph of? Ask him who pulls up when OBRE types in the name Vertin? If you get the answer to these questions you will be getting real close to the "why".

Steve Vertin
 
Austin and David,

I'd be careful here. Austin, you say you know more about the case than Steven posted. Well, I do not know your source, by mine are pretty reliable and I, too, have more information. THAT is why I ask these questions. Steven's responses could clear it up; unfortunately, he has decided not to answer most of the questions.

I'm wondering what you might think if it turns out that Steven is wrong on this? Would you change your mind?

For example, he has admitted that he sued his subcontractor. Why? If she used the right comps and concluded the right values, why the suit? And why did he win? Apparently, she lost her license and Steven apparently signed off on the very reports that caused her license to be revoked.

It is getting, as they say, curiouser and curiouser.

What is most important here is the question of state boards in general. if they are screwing up, then we need to say so- and complain. BUT, if we complain loudly in a case in whicg the BOARD is right and the APPRAISER is wrong, would that not lead to questions over other cases?

David, I am wondering how Tom Hildebrandt would feel IF it turned out that he went on a crusade using both his case and Steven's? While his may well be a genuine example of board abuse, what if Steven's is not?

Once again, I suggest we get the FACTS. Steven can provide them- or at least his version if he so chooses.

Perhaps his suit against the state will offer some light- even if we get nothing more from him. Until then, I'll reserve my condemnation for boards who actually DO abuse the appraisers.

Brad
 
Brad:

You insult peoples intelligence.. But that is ok, I believe anyone can see through it. I see you did not take time to check the achieves before you spoke. I sued Raila because I contracted with her to bring back all of the raw data within the market. She did not do so. Furthermore, other portions of the law suite were predicated on information provided by the State of Illinois. If it was not so sick it would be near comical. The State provides information, claiming it to be fact, we act on it in good faith, then when it turns out the information provided by the State is false, the State tries using our acting on the original information against us and an indication of guilt? That is rich Brad.

Additionally, you make it sound like the State had a fair hearing and took Raila's licence after a lengthy and judicial process. That is crap because she never showed at her hearing and the State took it by default. Finally, I won a judgement by default but have never and I repeat never received a dime. Raila is gone Brad, no where to be found.

Finally, what is your point with all of this? What does it have to do with USPAP? You say I am guilty but where, how, why and for what? Brad your tactics are exactly like OBRE, all you do is toss out accusations and innuendoes with nothing to back it up. After nearly 90 post of info between us you have provided nothing of substance.

Steve Vertin
 
Brad: Point of clarification: I said: “I do not have any information except what I have read in this and related threads posted by Steve.” I have never had any private off-line communication with Steve or anyone else in this matter. You apparently misunderstood that point.
Second: I am just doing my duty as a professional peer in this matter. I pointed out at the beginning that I am only responding to the facts I have gleaned from this discussion on this board. Again, the gravity of the case stinks in my view based on this evidence. The case is Mickey Mouse on the face of the evidence I have seen and you seem to be holding a private inquisition based on an assumption of guilt and secret evidence. You say you have additional information, well let’s see it. If the OREB has additional evidence, then why haven’t they acted on it in 8 years? Steve has been waiting 8 years to see this evidence. It was so important that they lost his file and time would have run out on the case if Steve had not inquired as to its status. Every point you raised Steve has given a reasonable response to, but you stated in your last post that you know something we don’t know. If I don’t know what the evidence is, then on what basis do you expect me to evaluate the evidence? How did you get this additional evidence? Is Steve's file in the public domain? I think that statement reveals volumes.
Sorry but I will not be a party to an inquisition. As a professional peer I will judge on the basis of the evidence at hand, and to repeat, as of the moment the gravity of the evidence I have seen is that somebody is holding an inquisition to get Steve. So now the cloud is over your head. How would you feel if I stated that I had uncovered secrete evidence that showed a criminal conspiracy on the part of the OREB to get Steve and you are implicated in the plot, but I can’t reveal my source? That is bassically what you are doing to Steve. I am always careful because I always hold the high moral ground and the rule of law.
 
Austin,

Your quote:

"Brad: With all due respects, and sticking strictly to the facts as pointed out in this thread, I am beginning to have serious questions about your motives in this discourse. I base this opinion on the following line of reasoning. I know no more about Steve’s case than what I have read on this thread. "

Did I misunderstand you? Seems to me that you came right out and said it, so I naturally assumed you did know more.

The info I got is supposed to be in the public domain. But, because I do not KNOW that, I have elected to let Steve tell us.

My motivations? Let's remember what this thread is all about. It is about whether or not an appraiser has been mistreated by his state board. You, and others have been very quick to jump aboard Steven's train. I preferred to wait until we has the facts- which we still do not have.

At this stage we KNOW only this: Steven was heavily fined by his board. He claims it to be unjust and is suing over it. I cannot and will not condemn that board for soong something wrong unless I actually know this to be the case. At this stage, I do not.

So what are my motivations? Is it to get appointed to the IL board. NO. I live now in CA. CA board?- NO. I do not know anyone high up enough in this state to make that happen, and am not sure I would even like that. Financial remuneration? NO. I get nothing. Personal dislike of Steven? NO. Never met him that I recall.

You guys all want the boards to be FAIR. That is the acronym of your new group. But FAIR is a double edged sword that cuts both ways. If you truly want to be fair, then you have to be that way with all parties, and not just with Steven.

Brad
 
Brad:
First: I just went back through this thread and I do not see anything I said that is even tangent to the subject of having said that I knew some inside details of Steve’s case. I know nothing other than what is in these threads so will you please point out what you are referring to.
Brad wrote: “The info I got is supposed to be in the public domain. But, because I do not KNOW that, I have elected to let Steve tell us.” Reply: What kind of double speak is that? Either the information you have is in the public domain or it is not. If you don’t know if it is or is not in the public domain, for the sake of argument, if it is not, then how did you get your hands on it? If it is then show it to us. Basically what you are saying is: “Steve, I know you are guilty based on possibly illegally obtained evidence but I don’t know where the evidence is, so fess up and give me the information to prove you are guilty.” Some how, I don’t think that is what the founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution.

Second. Brad wrote: “You, and others have been very quick to jump aboard Steven's train. I preferred to wait until we has the facts- which we still do not have.” Reply: I am not jumping on anybody’s train. As I have repeatedly stated, I am responding to the facts of the case that are available to me through this and related threads on this board which includes your demeanor and apparent spin in the questions asked and the angles you have taken in technical discussions. Again, in my view, based on this evidence as a peer reviewer, I don’t like what I see. If the OREB wants to get in on this, let them have at it. Lets hear their case. If the evidenced is in the public doman, what is their problem? If it is not in the public domain, then somebody has a real problem. This case has been pending for over 8 years, you say you have inside information that Steve is being less than candid but are not sure if your evidence was legally or illegal obtained, then say you don’t want to condemn the OREB until the facts come out. Hell, at the rate OREB is pursuing this case, we will all be dead by then.

Third: As to your motive? The only method I have of gauging your motive is by interpreting the apparent spin of your statements. What I am reading is jive, juke, spin, angle, and the only motive I can perceive is to divert the spotlight away from the OREB for some unknown reason. Couple this with your statement that you have inside information but are not sure if it was legally or illegal obtained and we have the ingredients for a spy novel.

Forth: Brad wrote: “But FAIR is a double edged sword that cuts both ways. If you truly want to be fair, then you have to be that way with all parties, and not just with Steven.” Reply: You are right, we want to be FAIR with all parties. So lets hear the OREB side of the argument and your secret evidence and then we can really be FAIR. We at F.A.I.R. will not standby and let any individual or group be the object of an inquisition. We are about due process, the rule of law, and fairness.

Summary: If anybody wants to know why we are forming the new organization called F.A.I.R., this is the reason: The reason is to protect the rights of the individuals against repressive state appraisal boards that have no appreciation of individual rights, due process, or professional ethics. If anybody wants to join, contact Steve Vertin, MAI, or visit our board under user groups. We want the kind of peer review you are reading on this threat to protect your rights and prevent you from being the object of an inquisition like Steve Vertin, Tom Hilderbrant, and David Johnson had to endure.
 
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