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<span style='color:darkblue'>Mr. Ellis,

I am disgusted with you. You have convinced us that you DO have a hidden agenda -- that much is clear. It may be one of several, or some combination. But what has also become very clear is that none of these potential agendas are honorable.

Your accusations by innuendo are tiresome. You say that your unnamed sources are reliable, but few (e.g., none) of your "facts" have proven sound. Many, most, or all of them have been debunked right here in this thread.

You either do not read what others write, or intentionally misinterpret plain English before posting non-responsive, irresponsible responses and new groundless accusations by innuendo.

Your Standard 3 proclamation is badly written at best. However, with consideration to your past "work" right here in this thread alone, it is also a thinly disguised, badly composed piece of double talk -- weasel phrasings -- interwoven throughout an imprecise, near childish construction:

http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1863

You have very greatly underestimated the intelligence of participants on AppraisersForum, and are also patently offensive to any respect for truth or fairness.

Yes, Sir, your apparent shameful and un-American motivations, and lawless and corrupt agenda, have every reason to fear F.A.I.R.


David C. Johnson, Member of FAIR
NC State-Certified General R.E. Appraiser</span>
 
David,

Thank you so much for finally making this all clear. When you cannot support your agrument, you merely resort to name calling, and I am particularly pleased with the "un-American" moniker. It shows your true colors.

Steven's case will certainly air all the important facts. When it is over, I will get a copy and read it with interest- no matter the outcome.

But, this now allows me to leave you to stew in your private juices. Enjoy your life.

Brad Ellis
 
Brad:

I do not believe I have called you any names. I have simply pointed out where I believe you were wrong or intentionally or unintentionally tried to mislead. But I will take what you say at face value. Possibly you seek the truth. Possibly you are cautious and do not want to be conned. I can appreciate that. I do have to admit, as I have been saying along, I have been very busy and may not have answered your questions fully. However, as I have also said many of these answers were in achieves. I have not avoided them because I am embraced or believe we did something wrong. It has strictly been a matter of "so many hours in a day". I believe one of your final questions asked was "how many sales were used in the actual reports?". This is important and examples bad understanding by States concerning scopes of reports.

My case is a classic example of enforcement and investigators refusing to understand circumstances under which an appraisal has been developed and reported. It further examples how appraisals are not being judged within the context of their identified purpose, intended use and intended users as stated within reports. State's have been continually warned to stop this practice by ASC. ASC has told investigators and enforcement they should take extra care with these issues. However, these warnings go unheeded as State's persist with this practice because of limited education and experience. Since many of these Board's mainly consist of form fillers with few clients out side the scope of lending, most reports are judged in the context of FannieMae guide lines even if the client is not FannieMae.

Brad, you have never once asked about the purpose, intended use and intended users of these reports. Pretty important stuff if you are going to criticized the work product of others. Like you, OBRE, also thinks these details unimportant. They believe we should only produce one product, in one manner (FannieMae compliant) and hell with client needs. This is crazy and will result in the end of appraising in other areas where work is expanding not drying up like Fannie.

My client was FEMA. For those not familiar with this branch of government, I read once they were one of the largest silent segments of the US. The acronym stands for Federal Emergency Management Agency. Their mission is:

"to reduce loss of life and property and protect our nation's critical infrastructure from all types of hazards through a comprehensive, risk-based, emergency management program of mitigation, preparedness, response and recovery".

They handle disasters annually in various parts of the country. Every time the President declares an area a national disaster, FEMA is on the spot. Furthermore, they do extensive strategic planning for future emergencies under countless scenarios, i.e, nuclear war, acts of God, and now terrorism. They gather tons of data in order to form strategies under "what if" scenarios.

FEMA has special guidelines for completion of appraisals just as FannieMae, HUD, FHA, etc,. The reason they have said guide lines is the same as any form of organization. They need it in a format to fit special informational needs to estimate future events. FEMA has been ordering appraisals for some time. They have bought countless piece of real estate from numbers of disasters. These are highly sophisticated users. All reports were reviewed by an experience appraisers knowledgeable with requirements. In fact our reviewer had just taken the comprehensive towards his MAI. I heard he passed shortly after. He was not a green bean unfamiliar with appraisals or appraisal theory.

With this in mind, FEMA required all sales, used in the body of the report, to have occurred within a certain time frame and distance. They were so adamant about this guideline it was written into our contract along with other special requirements. Let me state here, none of these requirements were in violation of USPAP. In fact many exceeded USPAP requirements. Given our data, we had hours of conversations with our reviewers. I later heard the State scared the hell out our FEMA reviewer by threatening huge fines and possible suspension unless he signed a statement claiming he would not testify on our behave. I heard this directly from his employer. Therefore, I believe it to be true and correct.

Out of the 25 sales, we used, I believe we had 6 that fit into the time/locational requirements of our client. So with our client, we decided we would build a model, that was USPAP compliant and fit FEMA's needs. We took the 25 sales and extracted paired sales adjustments for every factor on the form. The work book containing the extracted paired sales adjustments was about 55 to 65 pages. Then we used 3 (what we termed primary sales) and 3 (secondary sales) within the actual body of the report and applied market extracted adjustments for all differences between the comparables and the subject. This method is totally theoretically correct.

OBRE kept acting like we were crazy for fulfilling our clients needs even when those needs were not in violation of USPAP. We kept asking them why they believed this wrong? No one ever answered. They just kept saying, well FannieMae says such and such and FannieMae says this and that. We were baffled as to why these guys were imposing FannieMae guidelines on FEMA. Later it hit us they did not know any better. They thought there was only one way to do an appraisal and all scopes, purposes, intended use and intended users were the same. After the project was completed our client, who had literally reviewed 1,000 of reports within this project said our reports were some of the best he had seen for the project. I conclude that three MAI's reviewed these reports under STD3, plus AI Standards Board, there were no Standards or theory errors. However, the State, with no witnesses or evidence or STD3 review concluded the whole project was incorrect? I do not think so Brad.

Steve Vertin
 
Steve,
Sounds like a case of Fannie Mae-itis; folks who think appraising is a 1004-form, that percentage-line-adustments are the only means of comparison and in which everything from Alberta to Zimbabwae is "average" and "sub-urban."
 
Steve has a good point, doing only FNMA work is a state of mind. I have an appraiser buddy here in town that came along behind me and I gave him all of my AI course books and he has had all of the MAI education courses and is a pretty knowledgeable appraiser, but all he does is FNMA residential work. He comes by my office talking about underwriters, 2055’s, 1004’s, flood maps, and talks for an hour. I have no idea what he is talking about. This is the kind of BS artist that gets appointed to state boards. As a matter of fact, he use to work in a clothing store for our state senator and no doubt he will ascend or descent to the state board sooner or later. I have filled out two FNMA forms in the last 10 years and the only reason I did that was basically to see what it felt like. My practice is not even related to that mentality. It is not a matter of a lack of knowledge it is just a narrow segment of the appraisal industry that about 85% of appraisers happen to fall into but unfortunately, they don’t understand that. This week I lucked up and got three residential appraisals in a standard subdivision and it was so easy I knew the answer before I left the tax office. All three appraisals were in the same subdivision of rancher homes all basically alike. I looked at the sale history of every house on the street and the price range didn’t vary $1500 from the average. One of the appraisal request letters had a note at the bottom that said: “Client said appraised for $120,000 in 2000.” It wasn’t a house within two miles that sold for that price. It was on a cul de sac of similar homes in a cookie cutter subdivision and the highest priced house that ever sold was a $100,000. I found the identical house plan three times all at $100,000. Compare this to my usual assignment like last week a strip of five 19th century stores in a one-horse town with no sales in the last 75 years. This strip looked like Dodge City with a covered canopy over a common boardwalk with a rail to tie the horse to. The building I was appraising looked like The Dodge House on Gun Smoke and when I went inside I expected to see Matt Dillion, Mrs. Kitty, Doc, and old Festus sitting at the table. The tax assessor didn’t even know what or where it was. I found out that it cost $3,000 in 1885, and so I made a $400,000 time adjustment less 80% depreciation based on an effective age of 80 with a 100-year economic life just to keep the appraisal police off my case. Actually, it has sold at public auction for $40,000 with seven bidders bidding so that information came in handy. The other four stores were rented which helped.
 
<span style='color:darkblue'>To all:

Steve wrote the following a couple of days ago in this thread:

"Bingo, Austin I think you may be on the right track. Ask Brad if the OBRE
takes photographs of all of the appraisers who are licensed in Illinois? Ask
him if they can tell the racial make-up of the person they have a photograph
of? Ask him who pulls up when OBRE types in the name Vertin? If you get
the answer to these questions you will be getting real close to the "why."

Steve Vertin"
___________________________

Brad decided not to take the bait and ask Steve what he was referring to. I suspect he did not take the bait simply because he had no need to. He already knew.

However, I did not, so I emailed Steve to ask what he was talking about:

"What is the issue of your picture at the OBRE? Are you a minority?"

Answer:

"No, my wife is black. She is a licensed appraiser in Illinois. They take pictures
of all appraisers. If they typed in the name Vertin both of us would appear. Same
last name same address only I am white she is black. Furthermore, this was a
government contract. In Illinois you have to write in whether or not the company
is minority owned. My wife owned the company at the time."

I swear, the biggest mistake I made, when forced to deal with the North Carolina Appraisal Board (NCAB), was Over Estimating Them. And I did it time and time again -- literaly for months at a time -- and never caught on. It never crossed my mind that the people appointed to our board could be as backwoods as they are.

What a fool I was. I view myself to have been pitifully naive. I even have a bit of contempt for my old self, and also have some envy of that person.

Years ago, I had heard that good 'ole timer Charlie Bass, MAI, from Raleigh, (I guy I knew / know) had been appointed to the NCAB; and like everyone I knew, thought it was a hoot.

My total time spent considering what our state's appraisal board might be like was largely limited to that five or ten minutes of amazement I spent reflecting over that news. (Charlie is the last appraiser any sane person would have ever knowingly consider putting on such a board.) It was amazing and also entertaining.

Understand, It NEVER crossed my mind I would ever have ANY business with our disciplinary agency, and those that did, I figured I would very likely never even meet.

I am much more aware now.

I have changed.

For the better?

I wish I had my ignorance back, in a way. But, Yes, It Is better for the long run -- I think.)

Enough. Some other time. For now:

Yes, the news that Steve's wife is black makes many things fall into place.

I have come to understand of myself, that I would rather be right than be happy. I would rather understand.

It's not so bad.

Regards,

David C. Johnson</span>
 
Steven,

I did not say YOU called me names. Was not you.

If the work was for FEMA and they had specific requirements that contradicted USPAP, then the JE would apply. Similarly, supplemental standards would come into play for increased requirements. USPAP provides for both.

I was unaware that IL kept photos of appraisers. The only one I ever knew about was on the temp license I first got that had a grainy B+W photo on the letter- but my photo has never appeared on any license in that state. I have no idea whether or not the state has kept these on file.

You have now raised another issue- that of affirmative action. If you obtained your contract due to that, no problem (at least, not for me- I have no real issue with affirmative action). But, the implications of this revelation are quite onerous.

So, I am now obliged to ask you if you believe that the state targeted you due to the race of your wife? If so, is this a part of your suit against them?

If not, I'd suggest to all that his be dropped from comments immediately. It is an ugly innuendo, and before folks bandy this about, I'd suggest that there had better be some real solid basis for such an accusation.

As you know, I know most, if not all the folks involved at the state level with this. I'll just state here-categorically- that I have never heard a single one of them make any sort of comment that could remotely be considered to be racially based. Not even a joke involving the subject.

For me, this is the most serious of issues. I have been involved in this a long time- most recently on the Steering Committee and Chair of its Education Task Force of the Mortage Credit Access Partnership (MCAP) under the auspices of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago- until mid 2000, when I relocated to CA (and by coincidence, as an employee of an African-American Principal and CEO who is an MAI,ASA,IFAS and a truly great guy and a friend).

Given my sensitivities on the issue, I'd remember if I ever heard anything to cause me to be alarmed. I have not.

Again, your case is now in the court and we'll see what they decide.

Brad
 
Brad:

You say:

"If the work was for FEMA and they had specific requirements that contradicted USPAP, then the JE would apply. Similarly, supplemental standards would come into play for increased requirements. USPAP provides for both".

Please re-read my post. I clearly say none of FEMA's requirements contradict USPAP. Furthermore, I do not know if "supplemental standards" was even a term in 1994. However, I fail to see their relevance in this issue so I believe it moot. If you would like to elaborate be my guest.

Finally, I was not the one who brought the racial issue totally to light. But I do know the constitution gives us free speech. Therefore, folks can bandy about what ever they wish.
Furthermore, I know OBRE's case was nothing but "ugly innuendos" so my only statement is: People in glass houses should not throw stones. Or possibly you sow what you reap.

Steve Vertin
 
Steven,

Your quote:

"With this in mind, FEMA required all sales, used in the body of the report, to have occurred within a certain time frame and distance. They were so adamant about this guideline it was written into our contract along with other special requirements. Let me state here, none of these requirements were in violation of USPAP. In fact many exceeded USPAP requirements."

1. IF you WOULD have considered another sale that occured outside the stated FEMA parameters of time and distance, then the JE would HAVE TO apply. For example, IF they said the sale had to be within 2 miles and 1 year, but you found a model match within 1/2 mile that sold 13 months ago in a stable market, would you NOT use it in normal assignments? If YES, then excluding this might violate USPAP, unless the JE applied, no? Remember we must define the relevant characteristics. Intentionally ignoring relevant market data, albeit at the direction of the governmental client who has that right, still requires application of he JE. Otherwise, it could be "deemed" to be an error of ommision.

And yes, I am aware that this may not have actually occured. This is hypothetical, of course. That is why I used the word, "IF". You stated that none of these requirements "violated" USPAP. MY interpretation of USPAP (and I am aware that you might not agree) is that NOT including a comp like I outlined above would contravene USPAP, so compliance would therefore require the JE exception.

Anyway, that is how I would approach it.

2. The supplemental standard rule clearly applies given you last sentence.

Brad
 
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