More On Free Comp Checks

[Offshore]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caterina Platt
Joyce,

We've said it a million times. Take the order function away from the commissioned loan officer and any person within his/her reach.

Sorry, don't agree with that. Maybe if it's a BC lender, but some of my best friends are LOs that order directly to me, and trust me, I KILL deals, and I still get work from them. We just need to eliminate predatory lenders.TC

Mr. TC if you sincerely believe that, you’re one of the select few with the luxury of dealing with A paper types. They’re a different animal not due to superior ethics, but because they’re aware they may have to buy a negative equity money pit back if they get their hand caught in the cookie jar. In the B & C paper world, the commissioned loan officer with authority is like a disease. Toss in the fee shops eager to please at any cost and it’s a pandemic which fuels predatory lenders which affect us all. I’ve never heard of a high volume fee shop with A paper clients.

 

[Mark to market]

Otis, Caterina, Denis, Richard Greg, et al.

Otis, I am not in conflict with Cert 18, as I have not agreed to report a specific value, see comment that states, “Value obtained for this report may not be similar to value obtained doing a full appraisal”.
I will get down to some of your appraiser meetings as long as you promise not to soapbox on the evil comp doers.

Caterina, there are many professions that do preliminary work for free. Some even do comp searches for free. Ask any realtor.
I generally do preliminary research on every property, even if it is not asked for. So in my business model the comp search is often not any extra work. I generally work with established clients and will stop dealing with a client if I feel they are shopping loans.

Denis, thanks for the comments. It is nice to know that there are other sane people out there. Let the rebellion grow.

Richard, several times you have called my USPAP compliant practice unethical. Yet you are the one going out to do a job, knowing in advance, that there is no way you will ever get value. Really, which one of us is unethical?

Greg, great comment, “doing appraisals is what appraisers do”, you hit it full on.

__________________________-
If you can’t beat ‘em quote USPAP

 

[Caterina Platt]

Caterina, there are many professions that do preliminary work for free. Some even do comp searches for free. Ask any realtor.
I generally do preliminary research on every property, even if it is not asked for. So in my business model the comp search is often not any extra work. I generally work with established clients and will stop dealing with a client if I feel they are shopping loans.

Ask any Realtor??? How is what we do similar to a Realtor's work?

Outside of the Realtor doing a CMA which loosely resembles our work, and I do emphasize loosely, I see no other true parallel.

 

[T.E. Faravelli]

When Blatty published his novel in 1971 he examined conflict between parties with opposing beliefs. The point made vis-a-vis my citation of excerpts from his screenplay is to illustrate that those with an agenda will resort to virtually any and all means to achieve it. They are not beyond utilizing those with altruistic or best intentions. It also epitomizes that most of what we do can be boringly routine, monotonous and yet at times punctuated with extreme terror.

 

[TC]

Quote:
They’re a different animal not due to superior ethics, but because they’re aware they may have to buy a negative equity money pit back if they get their hand caught in the cookie jar. In the B & C paper world, the commissioned loan officer with authority is like a disease. Toss in the fee shops eager to please at any cost and it’s a pandemic which fuels predatory lenders which affect us all. I’ve never heard of a high volume fee shop with A paper clients.

I never said I was high volume, and I'm not a shop, I'm a firm. All my clients are either local banks or Mortgage BANKERS that sell loans to those institutions. As I said before, I'm very lucky.

TC

 

[JSmith43]

Ms. Potts,

In some ways I am with you. Can't solve the problem? Well then change the problem! Let's all lobby to make it legal that as long as it is a mortgage broker requesting it that all appraisers can legally verbally blurt out any stupid value opinion they want as long as it's not in writing and as long as nothing predetermined for a mortgage transaction is agreed to. No certifications, no five years of work file, no nothing.. just go ahead and blurt out anything you want.

There, now we'd all finally have an even playing field on this matter and the results of following mortgage loan appraisals would be the mortgage brokers problem for expecting a prior meaningless value to be blurted out to them. Perhaps brokers who finally understand what a desktop appraisal is, or raw neighborhood sales data, and were willing to cooperate with us in order to get better services in some manner .. then would.

I just want an even playing field, that's all.

Barry Dayton

I totally agree with the main point of your post. How we get there can be some sort of compromise, since a level playing field is an important goal. When the field is tilted like it is, the good appraisers lose, the unscrupulous get an extra competitive advantage.

 

[Otis Key]

So let me get this right - for clarification - you do comp checks for grins and giggles? You don't expect to get an appraisal assignment down the road? WOW - if you want to work for free, then I know a bunch of people, in all kinds of fields, who would love to abuse the situation.

Otis, Caterina, Denis, Richard Greg, et al.

Otis, I am not in conflict with Cert 18, as I have not agreed to report a specific value, see comment that states, “Value obtained for this report may not be similar to value obtained doing a full appraisal”.
I will get down to some of your appraiser meetings as long as you promise not to soapbox on the evil comp doers.

They're not my meetings - they're appraisers meetings.

So you don't think you're in conflict with cert 18. I think you might want to read it again. My above statement should help you understand why I'm asking it, along with this quote right off the form:

18. My employment and/or compensation for performing this appraisal or any future or anticipated appraisals was not
conditioned on any agreement or understanding, written or otherwise, that I would report (or present analysis supporting) a
predetermined specific value, a predetermined minimum value, a range or direction in value, a value that favors the cause of
any party, or the attainment of a specific result or occurrence of a specific subsequent event (such as approval of a pending​

mortgage loan application).

My bold

Caterina, there are many professions that do preliminary work for free. Some even do comp searches for free. Ask any realtor.
I generally do preliminary research on every property, even if it is not asked for. So in my business model the comp search is often not any extra work. I generally work with established clients and will stop dealing with a client if I feel they are shopping loans.

Real estate agents, and even some realtors, do CMA's in the hopes of getting a listing. Why are you doing "comp checks"? Specifically!

 

[Stone]

Otis - it isn't in conflict with that cert. If he does an appraisal with one intended use, and includes language that once the appraiser actually leaves the office and verifies the subject and sales data it might not fall in that range, it isn't in conflict. I would argue that you have a pre-determined bias towards anyone who does this type of thing, even within the rules, that causes you to be unable to look at his product with a neutral eye. At least in theory, he hasn't promised anything and the second assignment isn't contingent on meeting the range in the first one.

Two different appraisals, without one relying on the other. Whether you or I would have any desire to do them doesn't mean what he is doing is wrong. At least not under the current rules.

FTR - so you don't have to cut and paste the cert again: I read it when you first mentioned it. I re-read it when you mentioned it again to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I then re-re-read it again just now before posting. I believe you are putting your opinion into your reading.

One thought: I suppose if the state had an issue, a good test would be if some of his reports where he has done this type of appraisal first had subsequent reports that came in low. If that wasn't the case, I would be more suspicious (actually, I'd just join the crowd howling)

 

[Stone]

Richard, several times you have called my USPAP compliant practice unethical. Yet you are the one going out to do a job, knowing in advance, that there is no way you will ever get value. Really, which one of us is unethical?

Mark - you may want to step back from that line of thinking. Sorry, but it isn't our job to decide who has a property worthy of an appraisal. It is hardly unethical to go out and perform the requested service. That is where I will have to say you are walking a pretty fine line with your service.

I'll agree that what you are doing can be done correctly. But, this makes you sound like someone who only "appraises" property that he knows will make the loan. I imagine it isn't your intent, but that is how it looks.

 

[Offshore]

TC my statement about my having “never heard of a high volume fee shop with A paper clients” was not directed at you as an individual, I was stating that in general terms that appears to be the case with large fee shops. I think much of the problem is economic. Someone bites off more than they can chew by hiring a few trainees, their ego swells, but they soon realize those trainees have become ravenous pets that must be fed constantly. Enter the comp check.

Mr. Raney the comp check path is obviously tempting, which is why it’s so often embraced by those deficient in competency, education and ethics. You may wish to think long and hard before heading into the abyss. However one wishes to justify it, there is a stigma associated with providing the service and for good reason. I’m puzzled over your vagueness regarding the 5 year rule and record keeping. Does your supervisor currently have a comp check policy?