More On Free Comp Checks

[PropertyEconomics]

One more time, USPAP is written to conform with existing laws and not to circumvent them. It's not meant to be the moral code of appraisers any more than you let it be. It's not handed down by God for appraisers. Irish Catholic lol.

What, I did an appraisal? Really, where's the proof? I'm supposed to feel guilty that I committed the sin of appraising for no money??! Sorry, Irish catholic and guilt was an ingrained experience, I don't need no more stinkun guilt lol

If it not written, guess what, you've got no proof

So doing what I've said will give you guys a guilty conscience AND that will send you to skippy hell if you continue in your wicked ways. Sometimes you guys are hilarious.

The proof will be in the cocktail napkin, tucked into that lending file, and when the loan goes upside down, and the napkin has date, time, place, value, and everything else you said ... the lo has documented the appraisal you provided to them.
Tell it to the judge and argue your USPAP noncompliance with him ... as for me .. youve done an appraisal.

The fact that you lie and say you didnt because there is no proof doesnt mean you didnt do an appraisal .. it only means you lied about doing one. Very much like liar loans now we have liar appraisals and you have admitted they are part of your product offering.

 

[Samshile]

Nope - there has to be proof of an appraisal or there is no appraisal. Just like leprechans, find proof of one and I'll believe you. There is no proof a valuation was done. Hence : how can you prove it? Don't you guys understand that's why USPAP was written that way??!! I'm not compromising anything. I don't know who taught you guys this, but you need to re-learn. Look at it in legal terms - could you be found guilty for casing a joint or do you have to commit a crime.

Come on, use your heads, if there's no proof of an appraisal - how could there be one? Not even a slip of paper with a number on it - nothing. There's nothing unethical about it. Unethical would be saying there's an appraisal when there isn't. 2 sides to that coin.

Tim - like I said, I don't give away info for free or else that'd be all I'd be doing. I USED to have some good mortgage brokers that were very ethical that came to me because they knew I did a good job and didn't "hit the numbers" and they never had any problems with my appraisals. Same with my now gone banks.

I understand what you are saying. Advisory opinion 19 is guidline. My situation is similar.
If my clients are not report shopping. If they are going to order a report It will come to me. The order is not contigenent upon a value it is contingent upon if they going forward with the loan.

I cant believe some of the snarkey responses. Not much reference to the USPAP conflict but personal attacks. The name calling. geez. Most of the contemp here comes from those who over analized USPAP. Way off of the purpose for the guidelines. IMO
I threw out a senario and then have to read some really belittling comments in return. You who responded in this fashion are not any smarter or more ethical. So some of you think taking $400 for reports that will never be used and knowing it, is more ethical?
How many reports do some of you do a month that are useless? How much a month do you collect from a borrower that is hurting? Only to spend $400 for a report that is way low for the LTV? So being an intellecual self-rightous thief is moral and ethical?
If it dont apply let it fly. lol

 

[PropertyEconomics]

I understand what you are saying. Advisory opinion 19 is guidline. My situation is similar.
If my clients are not report shopping. If they are going to order a report It will come to me. The order is not contigenent upon a value it is contingent upon if they going forward with the loan.

I cant believe some of the snarkey responses. Not much reference to the USPAP conflict but personal attacks. The name calling. geez. Most of the contemp here comes from those who over analized USPAP. Way off of the purpose for the guidelines. IMO
I threw out a senario and then have to read some really belittling comments in return. You who responded in this fashion are not any smarter or more ethical. So some of you think taking $400 for reports that will never be used and knowing it, is more ethical?
How many reports do some of you do a month that are useless? How much a month do you collect from a borrower that is hurting? Only to spend $400 for a report that is way low for the LTV? So being an intellecual self-rightous thief is moral and ethical?
If it dont apply let it fly. lol

Do you realize who your client is? Its not the HOMEOWNER .. read other threads and you will realize that no appraisal is "useless" it may well keep a lender from making a mistake. I dont care who pays for it .. if you have issue with that then make your clients pay for it ... but the HOMEOWNER IS NOT YOUR CLIENT.

Comp checks are not against USPAP ... they are appraisals and Standards 1 and 2 apply .. you must have a fully documented file and a signed certification.

Its not my fault you guys dont wish to appraise per USPAP but would rather parse words and show you are right and all the USPAP instructors and others here are wrong. If you would just realize they are appraisals you would be on the right track.

 

[fifteen]

Yeah, right, some napkin is going to convince a judge that an appraisal was performed. Beyond silly

Face it PE California gets it and you don't. Maybe somethings wrong with your take on it? Maybe you should write the appraisal board in Cali and point out the errors of their ways. Maybe they'll even fly you out there for a medal lol

I guess for someone that never considers they're wrong this must be quite a blow. Have a drink:new_all_coholic:, it's permitted by USPAP.

Ohh wait, another analogy. You pour yourself a drink but it's not a drink till you actually drink it. Till you actually drink it it's just liquid in a glass. See? No one can say you drank it because there's no proof unless they actually see you drink it or can put it together... like glass partially empty and liquid on your upper lip, and even then it's not definitive proof. "The proof is in the pudding". Do you know what that means?

The only lie here is saying that an appraisal has been done when there hasn't been one done.

Call Cali, maybe they can explain it to you.....

The last refuge of a scoundrel appears to be attacking personally. Too bad a bad attitude doesn't prove your point - it just makes you look like you've got something to hide, afraid to admit you're wrong.

The proof will be in the cocktail napkin, tucked into that lending file, and when the loan goes upside down, and the napkin has date, time, place, value, and everything else you said ... the lo has documented the appraisal you provided to them.
Tell it to the judge and argue your USPAP noncompliance with him ... as for me .. youve done an appraisal.

The fact that you lie and say you didnt because there is no proof doesnt mean you didnt do an appraisal .. it only means you lied about doing one. Very much like liar loans now we have liar appraisals and you have admitted they are part of your product offering.

 

[JSmith43]

If you guys want to do comp checks with a shot at complying with USPAP, realize that the purpose of a LO that is not merely appraisal shopping is that they really want to know which deals to prioritize and have better than a guess at LTV so they can logically price/lock a loan.

Figure out a SOW that is not so minimal the results are likely to be useless. Follow USPAP development and reporting standards. Keep an electronic work file, including a signed cert. Some of this is busy work and some will make sure you have thought through the problem and come up with useful results.

Be sure and tell the client that when the SOW changes and you see good or bad stuff during interior inspections or learn things from the homeowner, neighbors, etc, the point value estimate may not fall into the range of value indicated by the desktop appraisal. Of course, the desktop appraisal, if it is useful at all, will lessen the risk and be worth the $$ you charge.

That is the reality of USPAP, where it is incorporated into licensing law. Enjoy, tolerate, or work to change it. But, don't wear blinders. It is what it is.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Yeah, right, some napkin is going to convince a judge that an appraisal was performed. Beyond silly

Face it PE California gets it and you don't. Maybe somethings wrong with your take on it? Maybe you should write the appraisal board in Cali and point out the errors of their ways. Maybe they'll even fly you out there for a medal lol

I guess for someone that never considers they're wrong this must be quite a blow. Have a drink:new_all_coholic:, it's permitted by USPAP.

Ohh wait, another analogy. You pour yourself a drink but it's not a drink till you actually drink it. Till you actually drink it it's just liquid in a glass. See? No one can say you drank it because there's no proof unless they actually see you drink it or can put it together... like glass partially empty and liquid on your upper lip, and even then it's not definitive proof. "The proof is in the pudding". Do you know what that means?

The only lie here is saying that an appraisal has been done when there hasn't been one done.

Call Cali, maybe they can explain it to you.....

Cali only has USPAP for federally related transactions. I dont know about your state .. in my state USPAP is LAW .. we must follow it. Now what you do is your own business, but if you were to do a comp check here .. you would have to have a file meeting standards 1 and 2 .. because you have done an appraisal as DEFINED BY LAW .....

I personally think CALI got it wrong ... look at the number of foreclosures there ... it might give you a clue. And there is no personal attack on you or the other guy that thinks comp checks .. Save worthless appraisals .... Im not attacking either of you .. I just believe you are both wrong and I also believe USPAP supports my conclusion. (Along with the other hundreds of posters here who actually do get it)

Comp Checks are appraisals as defined by USPAP ... your post of what the LO asks you is proof that is true ...

 

[Samshile]

Cali only has USPAP for federally related transactions. I dont know about your state .. in my state USPAP is LAW .. we must follow it. Now what you do is your own business, but if you were to do a comp check here .. you would have to have a file meeting standards 1 and 2 .. because you have done an appraisal as DEFINED BY LAW .....

I personally think CALI got it wrong ... look at the number of foreclosures there ... it might give you a clue. And there is no personal attack on you or the other guy that thinks comp checks .. Save worthless appraisals .... Im not attacking either of you .. I just believe you are both wrong and I also believe USPAP supports my conclusion. (Along with the other hundreds of posters here who actually do get it)

You received a lot of "Does not play well with others"
on your report card didnt you? j/k
USPAP is not law anywhere, it is a set of guidelines. We are not arguing the value of USPAP. JUst ur perception of it.
What about Advisory 19?

 

[fifteen]

And USPAP states that unless a numerical value or range of value is numerically expressed there is no appraisal. Expressed means written or spoken numerically - numbers ya know? I'm going to let this go for now, maybe when you can stop ranting it'll sink in that I'm right. Ca. agrees with me hahahahahaaah

The fact that you lie and say you didnt because there is no proof doesnt mean you didnt do an appraisal .. it only means you lied about doing one. Very much like liar loans now we have liar appraisals and you have admitted they are part of your product offering.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

You received a lot of "Does not play well with others"
on your report card didnt you? j/k
USPAP is not law anywhere, it is a set of guidelines. We are not arguing the value of USPAP. JUst ur perception of it.
What about Advisory 19?

USPAP is law in my state. It is adopted into State Law ... everytime USPAP changes my state law changes .. so yes USPAP is law in some jurisdictions.

I dont have USPAP in front of me .. but I do know what the definition of an appraisal is and simply you guys are doing appraisals ... again realize that fact and you are home free. Comp Check (err Appraise) all you wish.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

And USPAP states that unless a numerical value or range of value is expressed there is no appraisal. Expressed means written or spoken. I'm going to let this go for now, as soon as you can stop ranting it'll sink in that I'm right.

Can you hit $250,000 ?
Whats the least you can live with?
Around $190,000.

THAT IS DOABLE ... .the number was expressed and you spoke it. You spoke against a benchmark ... in this instance Equal To or Greater than $190,000.

Appraisal has been done.