More On Free Comp Checks

[PropertyEconomics]

A comp check would have saved all that time and energy. And the lender does not need a full 2-4 unit report to go forward. You have been so mono-foucused on what you believe to be an unethical process that you never address the the main issue. How does any of this spliiting hairs effect market value. The purpose!
The lender wants to know if the loan is supportable by the property value. That is the main reason we were given jobs. you keep skipping over the fact the market value is unaffected.
The final report, review and underwriting process is still in place no matter if u comp check a property 40 times a day.
This new and old appraiser. I come from the old school. I just been reading some of these arguments that miss the reason we have this part of USPAP. It is not comp checks. lol. It was to stop folks from trying too hard to hit value for pay.

Samshile .. you are totally missing what I have said. Comp Checks are perfectly legal, however, by USPAP they are called appraisals. Since they are appraisals they are subject to the development and reporting requirements of Standards 1 and 2.
Whether you do them for free or not is up to you ... however, that is a business model that many of us "oldtimers" understand is a no win situation. The appraiser essentially becomes a welcome mat for the mortgage broker and most will wipe their feet as many times as they are allowed to get away with.

I think desktop or restricted use appraisals have a place and a purpose ... my only arguement is they should be done in compliance with USPAP and in my state since USPAP is state law .. they must be done that way. If I comp checked properties 40 times a day .. Id have to have 40 work files with signed certifications together with all the supporting documentation and analysis which led me to my value conclusion that I gave in the comp check. Its really as simple as that.

What I will tell you though, is IF I do a comp check, I have done an appraisal and I know I have done an appraisal. I really shouldnt lie to you, to the banker, to my appraisal board, or to God ... I know I did it and I believe its wrong of me to say I didnt.

You say that USPAP was designed to stop appraisers from hitting numbers for pay .. what it was designed for was to protect the public from those appraisers. They still exist and they always will. A comp check has no bearing on market value ... USPAP addresses adn should have bearing on an appraisers ethics ... there is even a whole section of USPAP devoted specifically to that.

I only argue USPAP compliance in all facets of the appraisal business.

 

[Kevin Mc]

The lender wants to know if the loan is supportable by the property value.

When was the last time a LENDER called and asked you for a "comp check"? I am not talking MB, I'm talking LENDER. You can rationalize your behaviour any way you'd like. We all understand.

 

[Ken B]

Sam, I don't know about anyone else, but, to me, your posts seem to be a little disjointed. The condensed writing style makes it difficult to understand your position.

Some people are against "comp checks." That is their business decision. The "real" issue we have been discussing is USPAP compliant business operations. If an appraiser wants to provide a desktop appraisal (aka "comp check"), that is their decision. If they want to provide it at no cost, that is their decision. USPAP does not prohibit either action. However, the issue has been providing a desktop appraisal and 1) pretending that an appraisal was not performed and 2) not providing that appraisal in accordance with USPAP requirements. That, from my perspective anyhow, is what all the fuss has been about.

If you want to give away your services, knock yourself out. Just make sure that you are compliant with USPAP when you do so.

 

[Samshile]

It's apparent that you consider the MB trade to have been very very good to you.

You've been around long enough and have sat through enough USPAP courses for me to safely assume that you should know better than to consider the borrower to be anything other than the person who provided you access to the property.

The stated use of a mortgage appraisal is to provide the lender with a valuation for mortgage underwriting purposes. And when we refer to "the lender" we are not referring to the former used car salesman who ordered the appraisal and wears the big watch.

Your loan originator client is not the primary user of the appraisal and neither is the borrower. Whatever uses they have for an appraisal are off-label uses that are neither disclosed in the report nor consistent with the stated intended use. So when you make comments about borrowers not being able to use appraisals I have to ask the question - why do you consider that to be a bad thing? Based on your rationale they can't always use the results of a credit report or a title report, either, but they still end up paying for those.

Seriously, you need to step away from the mortgage brokers. They've apparently infected you with their team mentality. The biggest problem with that is that their team consists of them vs. the other intended users of the appraisal. When you join their team and do things you certify you don't do and demonstrate your bias towards the interests of parties you certify you have no bias towards it turns your certification into a lie and it turns you into ....well, you know where that's going. And this occurs whether you dork the value conclusion on the appraisal or not.

If you feel so strongly about playing for the MB team, why don't you disclose that in your appraisal report? Why don't you provide disclosures of the cooperative measures you take in these assignment and your reasons for doing them; i.e., to prevent the borrower from paying for a service they can't "use"?

I'll tell you why - it's because you know that if you were to disclose the truth it would render your report meaningless and unusable for it's stated intended use. You won't disclose what you're doing because - regardless of the verbal acrobatics you're attempting to land here - you know that doing these things is wrong. So in order to cover up the blatant misconduct you are forced to cover it up. Some people would call it lying. In an appraisal report. And then pretending that you're an upright citizen just like every other appraiser.

This is exactly the type of misconduct that the HVCC was ostensibly intended to prevent, and your MB relationships are exactly the type of relationships that it is intended to curtail. The collateral damage that is sweeping through our business is attributable to the abuses resulting from the MB team player mentality that has run rampant through our business for far too long.

One more thing - had the appraiser independence sections in FIRREA stood as originally written back in 1989 you would never have come up in an MB-centric appraisal shop and you wouldn't have learned all these bad habits from the people who trained you.

You say bias? There is no bias towards the reported market value of the property. The bias u imply is not the one addressed in USPAP.
Are you really saying comp check = Morally bankrupt, unethical reports?
I am questioning the moral crisis your attaching to the relationship between a comp check and a finished report.
The HVCC was about pressure to hit values. As if we were all being sneaky and finding a way to get high values past underwriting. blah. Scapegoating. I dont know or associate with anyone who performs clandestine reports with an underwriter, investor, and reviewer. It would take all three to push through a over-valued report.
Nothing you proposed is found in any of the reports I have done or the 20 or so appraisers I have mentored. Or the ones who mentored me. Nothing mislead one to believe the market value is not well supported. Are you having a tough time with " Nell a comp check was performed so the last 1,000 reports must be dubvious?

 

[Non Sequitur]

Nothing you proposed is found in any of the reports I have done or the 20 or so appraisers I have mentored.

This explains a lot.

 

[JSmith43]

" Nell a comp check was performed so the last 1,000 reports must be dubvious?

Is "dubvious" in this context, supposed to mean a combination of dubious and obvious, or is it just a Freudian moment?

 

[Samshile]

Sam, I don't know about anyone else, but, to me, your posts seem to be a little disjointed. The condensed writing style makes it difficult to understand your position.

Some people are against "comp checks." That is their business decision. The "real" issue we have been discussing is USPAP compliant business operations. If an appraiser wants to provide a desktop appraisal (aka "comp check"), that is their decision. If they want to provide it at no cost, that is their decision. USPAP does not prohibit either action. However, the issue has been providing a desktop appraisal and 1) pretending that an appraisal was not performed and 2) not providing that appraisal in accordance with USPAP requirements. That, from my perspective anyhow, is what all the fuss has been about.

If you want to give away your services, knock yourself out. Just make sure that you are compliant with USPAP when you do so.

I'm here working. lol. So I'll work on the disjointed. I agree with you. What I am hearing is some here disagree with it being ethical and moral, not business and compliant w/ USPAP.

"Comp check leads to immoral 1004". "Comp check for a 4 unit income property leads to end of appraisal business as we know it." Sttreching Make sure you dont get paid based on hitting a number. Into: The similar properties in the area are worth roughly 200-240k. Good, I only need 150 for my LTV Ill send the order right over. No cheating for value was done for a fee.

 

[Ken B]

Is "dubvious" in this context, supposed to mean a combination of dubious and obvious, or is it just a Freudian moment?

Psst...what do you want it to mean?

 

[Samshile]

Is "dubvious" in this context, supposed to mean a combination of dubious and obvious, or is it just a Freudian moment?

Haha :new_smile-l:what is a spell check?

 

[Samshile]

This explains a lot.

LOL. I put that in there just so u would have something to work with.