More On Free Comp Checks

[JSmith43]

HVCC will have some positive effects, but stimulating AMC solutions is not one of them. Another thing that flies in the face of progress, is that HVCC has been a stealthily anti-competitive tool.

It helps banks shut the door for the MB part of the wholesale channel & intimidates the heck out of correspondents. Yet another set of warranties and representations that correspondents are saddled with, if they decide to go with their own fee panel rather than use the investor's pet AMC (probably a joint venture or subsidiary of the bank).

Banks hate to compete with each other, much like OPEC members hate it when one of their members breaks quotas (kind of like selling through wholesale operations for banks).

 

[JSmith43]

From the unfiltered HVCC:

(4) conditioning the ordering of an appraisal report or the payment of an appraisal fee
or salary or bonus on the opinion, conclusion, or valuation to be reached, or on a
preliminary value estimate requested from an appraiser;



(5) requesting that an appraiser provide an estimated, predetermined, or desired
valuation in an appraisal report prior to the completion of the appraisal report, or
requesting that an appraiser provide estimated values or comparable sales at any time
prior to the appraiser’s completion of an appraisal report;

That is so poorly thought out. No wonder George has avoided commenting I had been reading the whitewashed version on efannie.

It is not even clear if the lender could retain one appraiser for a desktop appraisal and another appraiser, depending what is learned by the desktop appraisal, to perform the lending assignment for Fannie/Freddie.
This is like a full employment act for AVM companies

 

[Samshile]

You keep equating everything to the value conclusion as if that's what it is you're selling. It's not.

Whether you agree with our standards or not, the fact remains that under those standards the ends (value conclusion) don't justify the means. You can't rationalize a bunch of misconduct by saying "Kings X, the value is good; trust me". It doesn't work that way. Credibility is earned by doing, not by saying; and the burden of justifying that credibility always rests with the appraiser.

You made a deal when you applied for an appraisal license, and you reaffirm that deal every time you sign an appraisal report certification. You agreed to abide by our professional standards. Not some of them - all of them. Now you're telling us that you routinely go back on your word and then you get surprised when we express disapproval of that. Lookit, if you want to be the outlaw, why don't you just wear it with some pride? Say it loud and say it proud. Why (try to) hide behind the verbal acrobatics and pretend you're just an average citizen?

Your clients all know you're cheating to get assignments. Whether you acknowledge it or not, the fact remains that in their eyes you are a "cooperative" and malleable appraiser who will lie for them under at least some circumstances. They may not find that as offensive as we do, but at the very least it does detract from their perception of us all.

You never did answer my earlier query about providing full disclosure in your appraisal reports about the comp checks you did to get the assignment. So I'll ask again. Are you really so sure of what you're doing that you'd be willing to be open and honest with these lenders about it?

I seriously doubt it. Otherwise you wouldn't be speaking in terms of written proof not being in evidence, thereby making everything okay. It's like me saying that it would be okay to molest little kids so long as I could be sure I could get away with it. That rationale flunks a very basic moral test.

I know what you're thinking right now. You're attempting to fall back on that tired old "everyone does it and anyone who says differently is a liar" rationalization. Lemme tell you, that won't work here, and the reason why it won't work should be pretty obvious by now. It won't work here because we know for a fact that it's not true.

You've chosen exactly the wrong crowd to try to run that line. This ain't brokeroutpost.com, and we don't sell mortgages by day and timeshares by night.

It may be that everyone you know does comp checks, including the 20 souls you claim to have supervised. However, if that's really the case then the only thing that proves is that you need to reconsider your associations and start hanging out with better appraisers. Either that or you can get your own act together and set the better example for the appraisers you do know.

Mr Hatch you can be a master spinner for the republican or democratic party. Your perception has been mono-focused on tryin to connect a comp check to a unethical reporting. You are still looking at this with a very rigid perception.
I agree with all the standards. I am equally principaled as you are.
You take leave of good manners and utilize harsh acusations to make your point.
Yes the value conclusion. That is the point. It is supported by 6 comps 2 block away. A comp check invalidates that? A bunch of Misconduct? What over sell.

There is no misconduct. It is a business decision. See u assume this is for brokers/ used car salesmen. lol. I dont work for those type of lenders. You insist the comp check was done to get the assignment. Your mistaken.
No disrepect, this where your brain cells are going bananas.
Comp check. :Eyecrazy: Must be to get business. Wrong. I don't pay to play. I get the business anyways. Wise up Hatch.
The appraisal foundation:
Is Disclosure of a Free "Comp Check" Assignment Required?
Question:
If I perform a free "comp check" assignment and my client subsequently requests me to perform a "full" (or more "traditional") assignment on the same property, do I have to disclose the free "comp check" assignment as having provided a "thing of value" to procure the new assignment?
Response:
No. The Management section of the ETHICS RULE states, in part:
The payment of undisclosed fees, commissions, or things of value in connection with the procurement of an assignment is unethical.

Your clients all know you're cheating to get assignments. Whether you acknowledge it or not, the fact remains that in their eyes you are a "cooperative" and malleable appraiser who will lie for them under at least some circumstances.

Are you for real with this Frank Burns?

However, I used to be close to the head of the Santa Ana HUD Appraisal Dept. Kip. Bless her. A good appraiser does more than just type reports, they are craftsman.
In conclusion, I believe you are good man. Fair no. You jump to to many conclusions.
"There is a principle which is bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contemp prior to investigation.

 

[fifteen]

Samshile : This is good and worth repeating. Certainly applies to some here.

There is a principle which is bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation

 

[PropertyEconomics]

It's great you can afford to follow the letter of the USPAP, not all of us can afford to. That doesn't mean we don't do our jobs as ethically, morally and as due diligently as you. And that wasn't a joke or a crack about flouting the standards, it was just reminding all of you that you're human.
I actually asked today if I could change it and head surfer said no. Oh well

I'm doing a 1004 appraisal right now, a nightmare. I'll be lucky to make $10-15 an hour on it.

There is no better statement than this one, BOLDED IN RED ... to sum up this entire thread ....

That my ethical friends is why we are in the position we are in with those that argue comp checks are just a favor to the lender .... the apprazur couldnt afford to follow the letter of USPAP.

HOW FRICKING SAD ......

 

[Webbed Feet]

Just In!

name: Kirsten
phone: zzz.zzz.xxxx ext. xxxx
contact_method: Email
I am a: lending institution

message: Dear Appraiser,

If you don’t mind, could you please tell me whether you believe the property listed below would value somewhere in the range of 340k-370k? I am wondering whether to proceed with a particular FHA refinance. I did take a look at surrounding comps, but it was too difficult to gage the value range since the surrounding homes are so much smaller.

If you believe the subject property has the potential, I would like to set up an appraisal appointment in the near future. Could you also inform me of your full appraisal fees?


If you do not perform value checks, please disregard this email.

SUBJECT PROPERTY:
666 SW Hell's Place,
InTheSoup, OR 97007
4/3 bath
2700 sq ft

Obviously, I did some editing of what I just got via email in the last hour. We have forum members that say responding to this favorably would be ethical. We have forum members that I think say otherwise. I'll say this, crap like the above is what started the entire residential side of this trade down the road right into the HVCC, into Skippy, into a complete loss of our credibility, and being expected to hand out our knowledge and resources we pay for all for free.......

and it's getting very, very, old being a member of a trade that is so full of such a bunch of total morons that value themselves so little.

P.S. By the way, for those of you championing your views of handing out value checks, or comp checks.... this was my answer I just sent out....

Kirsten,

Thank you for considering my services. I would hope part of that consideration would be that if you found it too difficult to gage some anticipated value after you looked at comps, then calling upon my professional services to do so would mean actually hiring me. What I have of value that I sell are my unbiased opinions of value and my credibility. Please feel free to contact me anytime you feel ready to purchase those things. I cannot pay for the resources I have to have to provide these things by giving them away for free.

Best Regards,

So much for "everybody does it"

 

[Mister Ed]

Duck Man,

I am guessing that this means you can afford to abide by USPAP?

-talking horse-

 

[Mr Rex]

Sam and Apprazur are smarter than the average Bear. They are the reason the picinick basket for ethical appraisers is empty.

By god, I think he's skipping.

 

[Mister Ed]

As far as USPAP requirements, I consider that much like jaywalking and walking up to a cop and telling them I've just committed a crime.

In Vienna, Austria, crossing against the traffic lights (even with no cars coming) is a crime. I found out when I was stopped by a police officer who was able to understand enough of my broken German that I was unaware. I was let off with a warning. But, once I found out it was considered a crime, I stopped.

Or making a mistake on my taxes and calling up the state to tell them I owe them $1,220.18 and I'll be right in.

Actually, that would be wise because they will, sooner or later, catch it. If you beat them to it and correct it, you save yourself penalties and interests (I work in an office building with two tax accountants).

Or getting a free pass to a movie but giving it to someone else because if I'm going to watch the movie I need to pay - there's no free rides.

If you want to give away your free pass because you feel like you need to pay, that is your business. Someone, along the way paid for that free pass and gave it as a gift to you and you are passing along a gift. How does that relate?

Try living within your means without compromising in some fashion. Nobody is perfect. Those among us that do their job ethically and honestly with all due diligence don't deserve scorn. JMO

You are contradicting yourself here. Absolutely, nobody is perfect. That is the one thing I can confidently say and know that I am not wrong! However, you are saying that if you are going to live within your means that you must compromise in some fashion. I don't believe that! I do not compromise in my profession. To do so cheapens it. To watch other appraisers in my market do so cheapens it. I do my job ethically and honestly with all due diligence and I am busier than I have ever been in my life! I will openly admit that I have made mistakes in my appraisals (as we all do, if we are honest), but correct them in a timely manner and try to learn from them.

 

[George Hatch]

From the unfiltered HVCC:



That is so poorly thought out. No wonder George has avoided commenting I had been reading the whitewashed version on efannie.

It is not even clear if the lender could retain one appraiser for a desktop appraisal and another appraiser, depending what is learned by the desktop appraisal, to perform the lending assignment for Fannie/Freddie.
This is like a full employment act for AVM companies

I didn't avoid commenting on it. It's an HVCC requirement, not a USPAP requirement and not a requirement for the assignments involving the MBs that these guys are doing comp checks for.

Not everything goes through the GSEs.