MV opinion vs a price estimate

[J Grant]

price is literally part of the definition of MV. The following sentences mean exactly the same thing within the context of the definition being used.

(Market value) of the property is $1.​

​

(The most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, the buyer and seller, each acting prudently, knowledgeably and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus.) is $1​

A price and a market value opinion can be the same numerical dollar amount - but they are not the same THING.
When we do a review appraisal we are asked do we agree yes or no with the opinion of market value . We are NOT asked do we agree yes or no with a sale price or a sale contract price.
Which shows that a price and a value opinion remain two different things in an appraisal, even when they are same numerical $ amount.

You just are double dipping by using the same 1$ figure twice per your example in expressing our own market value opinion using the MV definition of most probable price

 

[J Grant]

We are all just playing word games and semantics and we use the definition that is Pre-Printed on our Fannie-Freddie Forms and Certifications. Also the line which states Opinion of market vlaue is also bogus as Pre-USPAP appraisals were considered to be opinions but after USPAP in court cases the bar had been raised to a level that it was no longer just an opinion but one that had to be supported by the data anal the appraisers analysis. That where it got nasty because we can always fined a hired gun called an -expert witness to challenge our opinions and our analysis. I think Grant is confused that just because we sign a Pre-Printed Form and Certification that we have to agree with everything the Word Smithers have written. In my Opinion all residential loan reports should be based on a Defenition of "Fair Market Value" Period. Also a Fair market Value in reality applies to almost any definition even on a distress sale it's a Fair Market Value when compared to other similar lower priced distress sales.

Sorry I disagree - I would not be spending so much time on the topic if it were just semantics or word games !

 

[JeffSH]

the issue is an appraiser saying they are giving a price opinion when they are engaged for a MV opinion (or any definition of MV) and of course I understand we express it as most probable price

If market value is expressed as a price, how is it not a price?

 

[J Grant]

Yeah, I don't see how you've gotten this far in this business thinking this either. As for rewriting your history of "trying to protect the equity of property owners" all those years ago, you can do that but it isn't going to affect my recollection of it. You and I went back and forth on that one in great detail over a prolonged time.

Well since I do not think what you imagine I think , there is no problem - you repeatedly make an assumption that I do not consider the sales comps as market sales , even when I tell you that is not the case. Why?

As far as protecting the equity of the property owners, I never said those exact words either, though in general discussions that topic may have come up wrt public trust. - any comments I make about it in any case are for the BB discussion and not necessarily what I do in an appraisal -- if you want to replay an old topic you can post it in a different thread )

 

[JeffSH]

When we do a review appraisal we are asked do we agree yes or no with the opinion of market value . We are NOT asked do we agree yes or no with a sale price or a sale contract price.

We are asked to verify that the original opinion is the most probable price. Price.....It's a price opinion. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[J Grant]

If market value is expressed as a price, how is it not a price?

It is still a market value opinion !! (expressed as a price ). It is what it is !! It is a model of a price , not expected to be a "real world actual price " - which greatly protects the appraiser.

I am not that clairvoyant to say my OMV as a model 300k price is exactly what will sell for in the market - but I might think I did well if it sells at 302k or 305k or 297k
As far as a CS price in a purchase assignment, even if we reconcile our OMV at the same numerical $ amount as the SC , the remain two different things.

 

[J Grant]

We are asked to verify that the original opinion is the most probable price. Price.....It's a price opinion. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

?? You are referring to a review We are asked do we agree or disagree with the market value opinion.

I dare you to do a URAR appraisal, cross out the purpose of appraisal is a market value opinion and replace it with Price Opinion !

And then when you opine bottom of SCA page, cross out My/our opinion of market value is _ and replace it with My/our price opinion is $____. Tell me what happens...

 

[JeffSH]

It is still a market value opinion !! (expressed as a price ). It is what it is !! It is a model of a price , not expected to be a "real world actual price " - which greatly protects the appraiser.

I am not that clairvoyant to say my OMV as a model 300k price is exactly what will sell for in the market - but I might think I did well if it sells at 302k or 305k or 297k
As far as a CS price in a purchase assignment, even if we reconcile our OMV at the same numerical $ amount as the SC , the remain two different things.

Again. More semantics. The person ordering the appraisal review doesn't give a crap about the concept of value. They want to know whether or not the original appraiser provided them with a reasonable price for sale.

 

[JeffSH]

dare you to do a URAR appraisal, cross out the purpose of appraisal is a market value opinion and replace it with Price Opinion ! Tell me what happens...

It is a price opinion, the most probable price based on the market value definition. This USPAP stuff is a red herring. USPAP doesn't define value!

Value implies a sale. A sale implies a price. Where do you not follow?

 

[George Hatch]

A contract or sale price and a market value opinion can be the same numerical dollar amount - but they are not the same THING.

If this is what you mean then this is how you say it without even touching the topic of this thread.

If I say the sale price is/was $1 or the contract price is $1 then those are facts which can either be accurate or inaccurate. If I say my opinion of the MV is $1 then that's an opinion, which cannot fairly be characterized as accurate or inaccurate, but rather as reasonable or supported.

Big difference between these concepts.