New Exposure Draft

[Non Sequitur]

Maybe I misread something, but I did not see eliminating experience hours, I saw a reduction of time needed to achieve experience hours as well as fewer hours.

As of now it's an ALTERNATIVE, the traditional trainee route has proposed modifications BUT a route (student?) will be an alternative route, similar to the alternative education routes most associate with eliminating the 4 year degree requirements. Ok, first paragraph of page 11:

Section 5, part D, of the Criteria states, in part “…experience gained for work without a
traditional client cannot exceed 50% of the total experience requirement.” In this proposal,
a practical applications curriculum could account for up to 100% of the experience
requirement. As a result, the Criteria would require revision to accommodate the
proposed practical applications concept.

Last paragraph of page 11 (note the term "student"):

Upon completion of each segment, the student could be eligible for certification
examinations. Practical Applications of Real Estate Appraisal courses would not qualify
for the experience requirements in the Licensed Residential classification. Completion of
the first segment of practical applications could enable a student to test at the Certified
Residential level. After completion of the second segment, a student could sit for the
Certified General examination. Existing Licensed Residential appraisers would only be
required to complete the second class in the first segment in order to test at the Certified
Residential level.

A fancy chart on page 12 (see thumbnail below):
Summary page 13:

Practical Applications of Real Estate Appraisal classes would provide an alternative to
gaining appraisal experience. After completion of this alternate track to experience, an
appraiser would be able to participate and complete appraisal assignments for the
certification level completed. It would be incumbent upon the state appraiser regulatory
agencies to identify these alternate experience track appraisers and have a process for
reviewing initial work product. Appraisers would be required to maintain logs of their
appraisal assignments. The AQB would recommend state appraiser regulatory agencies
review a minimum of five (5) appraisal assignments annually for a two-year period in order
to evaluate the appraiser’s progress. With this comprehensive review process of
completed appraisal assignments by the states, coupled with competent educational
offerings providing a complete overview of the entire appraisal process, this alternative
track to appraisal experience would be beneficial while maintaining public trust.

 

[hastalavista]

Denis, based on what you posted, it takes longer and is a more rigorous apprenticeship to become an electrician or plumber than an appraiser.

Imo it is not the best comparison. The chief difference is plumbing and electrical work are mechanical skills vs analytical skills.

I don't see what that has to do with it and there is an underlying fundamental core knowledge that is required. Electricians need to take some of the same courses as electrical engineers. Plumbing courses teach hydraulics. Have you ever seen the math equations scrawled on a piece of lumber? It is from the carpenter applying analysis to a specific problem; s/he is trying to figure out how to cut the lumber or what the proper rise-to-run ratio should be.

In addition, they are not in a conflict of interest with their own customers whereas appraisers often have a conflict of interest in results with their clients.

You don't think contractors are under pressure to come in at a low bid? Where do you suppose they might "cut corners" to get that bid? Ever read stories about concrete work that has to be redone because the contractor skimped on the quality of the pour to save money?

The conflict of interest is a weak link in appraising...

I've never had a job where I wasn't faced with some conflict: be it a company goal vs. what I thought was right; an opinion of my boss vs. what I thought; a decision to do X when I thought the right decision was Y. The conflict you describe exists for all professions. We are not unique in that regard.

...and an area where more education, more training and qualifications make an appraiser better prepared for that aspect of the business.

That is the thrust of my citing the article. 3-5 years for a plumber/electrician doesn't seem onerous to me given their profession; it seems prudent. If 3-5 years is good for them, I'd argue it certainly is good for us (and we are at 2,000 hours for a basic residential license, which can be completed in less than 2-years.

Maybe I didn't make my point clear?

 

[Proactive]

If you are right, we have gone from raising the bar dramatically, to actually lowering it from where it was prior to 2008. We will go from a 4 year degree and 2500 hours field experience to no degree and no field experience at all. That is very dramatic.

And, each bar adjustment is like running 100,000 volts through the profession, all the while screaming, "It's Alive!"

 

[J Grant]

Do you understand that chart? ( I guess all my education if for naught).Later when I get over my shock about this proposal I can focus on it right now am feeling sick from a feeling of betrayal, why would I assume the AQB has integrity silly me.

For an existing certified res appraiser if they want to upgrade to Cert General, what does that chart mean?

 

[J Grant]

If you want to compare appraisal to electricians and plumbers well, there is some analogy there. Imo appraisal esp on res side has some unique pressures and expectations around it that make it difficult rather than the work itself, though the work can be difficult at times.

Denis, I misunderstood your point, I see what you are getting at. I am not thinking straight am so upset about this. I hope you, and others bring point of view up to the Appraisal Foundation ( perhaps you will or already have)

 

[Meandering]

Opinions do not solve anything with this issue.

"Stakeholders" have prepared charts and economic impact analysis to support their position that there are not enough appraisers and it takes too long to train new appraisers.

To counter that with "what you think" is a fools game where you college degrees won't give you extra credit for being smart.

If anything,
some smart college people should put together demand/supply charts, factor in the degenerating volume in FRTs and the permitted use of evaluations over appraisals, as a proof of what reality is, instead of just providing opinions that are self serving.

Other less educated people could put together information about those blanket lawsuits that appraisers have been facing since the crash, comments and quotes from the FRB study about "under" and "over" value appraisal analysis pre and post subprime crash, to demonstrate to wanna be's the bulls eye that will be on their backs, for income that will net less than the $15 minimum wage for the first five years or so, all the while paying for background checks and upload fees. Really show the AQB what reality is,- by the numbers - and with stated examples, not just opinions.

Some folks have been in this industry too long.

.

 

[Non Sequitur]

They can lower the requirements to 1,000 hours of training and no education but that does not address the elephant in the room. Until the AMC model changes the profession will not be desirable. AMCs are still broadcasting $200 orders with 24 hour turn times, sending daily e-mails and making daily phone calls.

Until those things change appraisers are not going to take on trainees.

If someone has the flu you don't try to cure them by cutting off their legs.

Well, depends on which elephant you're talking about. To many appraisers refuse to acknowledge the other elephants, I know the room is crowded but this is a multi elephant situation.

First things first: The AQB isn't an appraiser advocacy org, like it or not they are congressionally mandated to protect the public trust. We can argue all day long about what that entails but we are just one voice in a crowded room of stakeholders.

The trainee system is broke and has been for a long time. One of the top topics on the AF and Facebook is poorly trained appraisers. Considering the obvious problem, why shouldn't the AQB take over the training of appraisers? The AQB already has control over USPAP curriculum and instructors, would this be a giant leap? I see it as a logical step. There's no reason someone with a degree should have to toil in a sweatshop for years to earn certification. And let's be honest, what's the better way to train the next generation; Pounding out Fannie 1004s using typists from India, 20 year old adjustment sheets, made up cost figures and a 10 page boilerplate addendum. Or a rigorous university level course followed up with an annual audit of work by state boards? I'm sorry, but considering what we have now I have a hard time arguing against the AQB's proposal. I don't necessarily like it, but I don't see anyone offering a viable alternative, just "Don't touch the 4 year degree requirement" over and over.

Another point Michigan CG, I agree the AMC model is killing the residential side but the proposal for alternate experience will likely affect the CG side more. When this passes I will be one of the first to sign up for the alternate experience track for CG, I may not agree with it but that doesn't mean I won't take advantage the new rules.

 

[Meandering]

Personally,

I've never heard a good argument from appraisers, as too why there are two different types of appraisers. But when you look at the reality of why there are two different types of appraisers, it's because it takes much longer to train a CG than a CR. The bottom of the food chain is always the largest population.

I kind of envy those that upgrade from CR to CG as they have at least some experience with the terminology and concepts. I came into this cold - knowing nothing - without a college degree, and trained to be CG. It was a lot to learn plus put into practice as you are learning it. I don't envy any newbie who undertakes the college will solve most of my problems route. $100k in student loans, bottom of the food chain, and enormous liability will cure that issue all on its own. But actually it might help some appraiser's children get into the business.

.

 

[Highlander416]

Personally,

I've never heard a good argument from appraisers, as too why there are two different types of appraisers. But when you look at the reality of why there are two different types of appraisers, it's because it takes much longer to train a CG than a CR. The bottom of the food chain is always the largest population.

I kind of envy those that upgrade from CR to CG as they have at least some experience with the terminology and concepts. I came into this cold - knowing nothing - without a college degree, and trained to be CG. It was a lot to learn plus put into practice as you are learning it. I don't envy any newbie who undertakes the college will solve most of my problems route. $100k in student loans, bottom of the food chain, and enormous liability will cure that issue all on its own. But actually it might help some appraiser's children get into the business.

.

This might not be true as far as the experience requirement goes. If you have the 4 year degree in hand, it appears only a few extra appraisal courses are needed to get CG, without ever having completed a commercial appraisal.

 

[Highlander416]

As of now it's an ALTERNATIVE, the traditional trainee route has proposed modifications BUT a route (student?) will be an alternative route, similar to the alternative education routes most associate with eliminating the 4 year degree requirements. Ok, first paragraph of page 11:
Last paragraph of page 11 (note the term "student"):
A fancy chart on page 12 (see thumbnail below):
Summary page 13:

Aside from the info in Working RE article, your take can't be denied. The way it is written now a person could conceivably walk off the street from another profession and get a Certified Residential or even a General without completing a single appraisal report. Without any experience in the real estate business at all. Yes, some case studies will be discussed in classes, but no live experience needed at all for either cert. '

I believe there is a huge gap between theory and practice. Not just in appraisal, but almost any field. Plumbers getting licensed without ever touching a pipe and so on?

I agree that some modifications are needed to the trainee system, but this is a leap too far if true.