New URAR Demo

[Airstream]

If nearly all appraisers raised their fees, they would have to pay—what the amount is, I don't know—probably a more modest amount than we would like, but any increase is better than nothing. Complex work is quoted per order. I was referring to regular work ( what is left of it )

It seems to escape the GSE reps that appraisers are about squeezed dry, and adding more time and complexity to the format is one more squeeze. And I am one of the luckier ones who is mostly AMC-free. However, I still feel vulnerable because lenders are being incentivized to use AMCs, so I never know how long it will last.

I agree. But I have noticed that appraisers are terrible with this. When I moved to a new area and started working there the appraisers in the area were only charging 350. I was charging 400 to 450 and getting work. I asked them to simply calculate what a $50 increase in fees would mean for their business….It was a significant amount of money!! Soon all the appraisers were charging 450. Finally, we were all charging 600 to 650. Right now, IMHO, if an appraiser isn’t consistently getting 600 to 650 per appraisal it’s going to be very very difficult to make a living in this business. They will make money, but not near enough to live on in some parts of the country. Not with the rising costs of transportation, housing, taxes, etc. And IMHO appraisers that are trying to make a living with the new form better up it 50 to 100. I look at it this way. My plumber is getting 140 an hour. I should at least be compensated as well as my plumber.

 

[Non Sequitur]

The problem is getting your hands on the software, and not really knowing what it will be like. Once you are invested in a software format it is hard to switch. I have done that. Granted that was 20 years ago. But I remember now all my old files and data don’t easily mesh. And then each provider has a different way to set things up. Now you have to learn each program. That takes time. I do agree with you that appraisers are going to have to try multiple versions. But it is going to cost money to do so.

Change is hard, and this one has been made harder by the players who speak down to the appraisers who will have to live with it. Now that some software providers have released test/learning versions I'm hoping they will listen to feedback from boots on the ground.

 

[Airstream]

Change is hard, and this one has been made harder by the players who speak down to the appraisers who will have to live with it. Now that some software providers have released test/learning versions I'm hoping they will listen to feedback from boots on the ground.

Couldn’t agree more!!! We were saying the same thing about the 1004MC. Finally after years they heard. But this will cause far more upheaval.

 

[Fernando]

I think you are correct. First of all I think the software companies are going to be in trouble if 40% of appraisers decide to leave the business.

Second, I know of one appraiser friend who is using a particular software, and he is deeply concerned about renewing the license because of the UAD3.6. What’s he going to get? What will it look like? This is a big change. I told him that if there was a time to change providers now would be the time ESPECIALLY if your software doesn’t allow for mobile data collection in the field.

Are you saying I need mobile because of the too many details on UAD 3.6. With FHA, I use to have a checklist but heck, I just go with the flow now.
And if there were minor mistakes detailing in the new form, GSEs won't know. It's not the end of the world.
I'm nearing retirement and can retire anytime.

The one instructor that I’ve heard of said it will be basically impossible without a mobile data collector due to all the drop down fields and where the pictures, etc go. So I suspect there will be many appraisers doing evaluations of their software, and if they aren’t happy will test others out despite being long time users. Again, time to change when there is a big change.

Third, I can’t imagine software bugs will not be a huge problem and issue. This form is complicated to use. I have to believe it is complicated to write software for. I am not a software expert, but it just seems reasonable to assume that. This is different than the last form change. This is an ENTIRELY new form. I firmly believe software costs will go up. I don’t think they will initially as providers try to keep customers. But I could see software costs going up 50% just because of all the time AND less appraisers in the business. They don’t write these programs to lose money.

 

[J Grant]

I agree. But I have noticed that appraisers are terrible with this. When I moved to a new area and started working there the appraisers in the area were only charging 350. I was charging 400 to 450 and getting work. I asked them to simply calculate what a $50 increase in fees would mean for their business….It was a significant amount of money!! Soon all the appraisers were charging 450. Finally, we were all charging 600 to 650. Right now, IMHO, if an appraiser isn’t consistently getting 600 to 650 per appraisal it’s going to be very very difficult to make a living in this business. They will make money, but not near enough to live on in some parts of the country. Not with the rising costs of transportation, housing, taxes, etc. And IMHO appraisers that are trying to make a living with the new form better up it 50 to 100. I look at it this way. My plumber is getting 140 an hour. I should at least be compensated as well as my plumber.

Appraisers would be lucky to get half of that 140 an hour in many cases.
I get as good a fee as there is around here, which is what C and R is for lender work, but it still needs to be more to keep up with the cost of living. I am not great about rasiing my fees enough either but need to do it at some point wrt the new demands with the format,

 

[Fernando]

I agree. But I have noticed that appraisers are terrible with this. When I moved to a new area and started working there the appraisers in the area were only charging 350. I was charging 400 to 450 and getting work. I asked them to simply calculate what a $50 increase in fees would mean for their business….It was a significant amount of money!! Soon all the appraisers were charging 450. Finally, we were all charging 600 to 650. Right now, IMHO, if an appraiser isn’t consistently getting 600 to 650 per appraisal it’s going to be very very difficult to make a living in this business. They will make money, but not near enough to live on in some parts of the country. Not with the rising costs of transportation, housing, taxes, etc. And IMHO appraisers that are trying to make a living with the new form better up it 50 to 100. I look at it this way. My plumber is getting 140 an hour. I should at least be compensated as well as my plumber.

One time, AMC sent me an email with list of other appraisers on their panel.
I thought of contacting them and price-fix with a higher minimum appraiser fee.
It would have gotten me in trouble with tacit collusion or some kind of antitrust issue which works against independent appraisers.

 

[Airstream]

Are you saying I need mobile because of the too many details on UAD 3.6. With FHA, I use to have a checklist but heck, I just go with the flow now.
And if there were minor mistakes detailing in the new form, GSEs won't know. It's not the end of the world.
I'm nearing retirement and can retire anytime.

Need? Well you don’t need 4 wheel drive in a snow storm. But then again you have a higher probability of getting stuck or going in the ditch. Believe me I know living in Wisconsin and being in the ditch a few times

 

[Airstream]

ignore.

 

[Fernando]

Need? Well you don’t need 4 wheel drive in a snow storm. But then again you have a hire probability of getting stuck or going in the ditch.

I can see a property in 10 minutes but I linger a bit longer to max of 30 minutes so the occupant/borrower know they're getting value of my inspection.
Appraisers don't need to inspect the house so thoroughly. I look at the kitchen and bathrooms and you basically know what rating should be given to the house.
The new UAD 3.6 is too much detail for appraisers to use.

 

[Sadie]

Not my goal to defend anything. Just stating something that is very obvious to anyone who has tried multiple versions of UAD 3.6 software. They do not all work the same.

The largest providers took different approaches with the original UAD; why would that be different for the new UAD?
Lots of demos and test software out there for folks to check out, if they wish.

As I am working through the form, I have come to the conclusion that no appraiser who was actively earning a living had any input into the redesign. My problem currently is the division of the comparable grid. It is designed so you can't enter in one comparable all the way at a time. Its a stop and start process. Fill out this little part for comparable 1, fill out the same little part for comparable 2, etc, then on the next page, Enter in some little part for comparable 1, then the same for comparable 2. etc until you have all of the pertinent fields filled out. It is very inefficient.