non-compete agreement

[Susan66]

Hello,

I am a trainee who just got an offer to work for an appraisal firm. The only catch is they have asked me to sign a non-compete agreement that would restrict me from working in the area (50 to 100 mi radius) for THREE years after leaving the company regardless of the circumstances. I am not willing to sign this but I do understand the business wanting to protect itself in some manner. I thought I could suggest an alternative contract and perhaps still get the job. Does anyone have a non-compete agreement they feel is fair and properly protects both parties? I'd love to read it. I really want to be an appraiser but cannot sign away all my rights for three years.

Thanks for any advice.

P.S. I live in WA state and these types of agreements are enforcible.

 

[William Rightsell]

Susan,

Copngratulations on getting an offer. That is worth its weight in gold these days if your mentor is prepared to properly train you.

As for the non-compete. I am NOT an attorney, but my father is, and I was asked to sign one years and years ago when I first started. My father looked it over and had a few other attorneys look it over. The concensus was that it would never hold up in court because it was too limiting...ie...it meant that I could not earn a living in my chosen profession within the geographical area that I reside in. They all seemed to think it would not be enforceable. This particular agreement called for a $100,000 fine payable to my mentor if I should violate it.

Another key issue as to why they thought it would not stand up was the fact that appraisal is not a "secret process" or a trade secret. In other words, it is publically taught in schools, etc. There are no "trade secrets" involved.

As to sign it or not, thats something you will need to decide. If you DO sign it, it may be easily overturned if the need arises. If you DONT sign it, then you may lose out on a good opportunity.

Talk to the potential employer and tell him your concerns. Tell him that you are in it for the long haul, but to sign something that restrictive is contrary to your good judgement. Make it known to him that you would like to stick around after your training - that may change his thinking. Tell him you understand the huge investment of time and money he will have in you, and that you intend to make that investment a profitable one for him, but you do not feel it is fair to yourself to sign such a document.

Call his bluff. If he thinks you have what it takes, and really is looking for a well qualified trainee, he will most likely work with you on this issue. If he refuses to bend, he either doesnt appreciate your side of things, or is just looking for somebody to sign on and make sure he can work them to death and intimidate them into never competing against him.

Tough decision.

todd

 

[GKCOX]

Susan:

Ths is a buisness decision. I have never asked any individual to sign such an agreement. My dream when I started in this buisness was to own my on shop. It would be highly hipocritical of me to deny another person those same achievements. I also think that any shop asking a perso to sign such an agreement are insecure in that they can't compete from experience and judgement.

The one thing I am most proud in my 40+ years of practice almost every individual that stayed with me a reasonable period of time obtained a professional designation (3 MAI and 3 SRA). All have their own buisness and quite successful. The one individua that has been associated with me for the longest time period is Greg Abell, MAI. While Greg has been successful in his own buisness, I am hs largest client. Greg is absolutely the sharpest tack I have ever met. Clay Wells was planning to leavethe industry after 10 years. He came to me for guidance. I asked that he associate with me for six months and that would give him sufficient time to make a logical decision. I am happy to report four years later he is still with meand I will accompany him tomorrowto the KREAB meeting where he will e recognized for completion of all requirements for his General Certification. No contracts involved. Lots of respect and I wil admit they are much smarter than I.

Hang in there Susan and don't let anyone spoil your dreams. GKCOX

 

[Doug Wegener]

That is probably not a legal agreement. Furthermore, I think the appraisal firm
wanting you to make it wants to create a "serf".

It is appropriate for an employer who invests time in training you to expect you to work for him long enough to make it worth his while. However, it unreasonable and very selfish to make someone sign that type of agreement.

I doubt very much however you could persuade the owner to see that point of view. If you really want to learn, sign the non-compete agreement, work
long enough to satisfy the demands of your own conscience, and then go
start your own business. Dont worry about the non-compete agreement, it wont stand up in court.

BTW, Lincoln freed the slaves.

 

[Ariba]

I doubt very much however you could persuade the owner to see that point of view. If you really want to learn, sign the non-compete agreement, work long enough to satisfy the demands of your own conscience, and then go start your own business. Dont worry about the non-compete agreement, it wont stand up in court.

So apparently your word and signature on a contract means nothing to you! Do you really believe that is ethical on your part?

 

[seattle98116]

Washington is a "right to work" state and even though employers have employees sign them, I think it is well known (or it was in the dot-com boom anyway) that they were unenforceable. I signed one once, and left a company that said I had a non-compete and I told them to try and enforce it...they dropped thier objections to me leaving. You cannot bar someone from making a living in this state. Now, Microsoft sued Google in court...not sure it was King County Superior Court or Federal Court about a high profile employee, but Google essentially lost and the employee (heading MS Asia and leaving to run Google Asia) was allowed to work for Google, but he had to wait a year to "directly compete" with MS. MS felt they lost on those grounds. They are understandable, they are going to train you and not want you to leave and take all of their human capital investment, but appraising has many aspects, right?

Good Luck,
Justin

 

[Susan66]

I don't want to sign something that I have no intention of honoring. I had a lawyer look at the agreement and he agreed that it does not protect my interests. I don't want to be an indentured slave, nor do I want to look over my shoulder for three years fearing a subpoena.

 

[Ariba]

I signed one once, and left a company that said I had a non-compete and I told them to try and enforce it...they dropped thier objections to me leaving. You cannot bar someone from making a living in this state.

Makes me wonder what you signature on an appraisal means?

I don't want to sign something that I have no intention of honoring. I had a lawyer look at the agreement and he agreed that it does not protect my interests. I don't want to be an indentured slave, nor do I want to look over my shoulder for three years fearing a subpoena.

I am glad to see that some people still have ethics, and their word and signature means something. I wish you well and positive thoughts your way.

 

[Doug Wegener]

Unethical

So apparently your word and signature on a contract means nothing to you! Do you really believe that is ethical on your part?

It is unethical to make someone sign such an agreement.

The best course of action would be to not sign it and go look to be a trainee somewhere else.

Personally, I would not sign it and that would be a better course of action
than signing it and then breaking the contract later. How ethical is it to
require someone to sign an agreement that is patently unethical and illegal?

Apparanently, you have no problem with that.

 

[Doug Wegener]

Correction

That is probably not a legal agreement. Furthermore, I think the appraisal firm
wanting you to make it wants to create a "serf".

It is appropriate for an employer who invests time in training you to expect you to work for him long enough to make it worth his while. However, it unreasonable and very selfish to make someone sign that type of agreement.

I doubt very much however you could persuade the owner to see that point of view. If you really want to learn, sign the non-compete agreement, work
long enough to satisfy the demands of your own conscience, and then go
start your own business. Dont worry about the non-compete agreement, it wont stand up in court.

BTW, Lincoln freed the slaves.

Let me correct my previous statement . I dont like to give people bad advice
especially bad advice on ethical issues.

Since you already talked to an attorney, perhaps you can get him to draft a
non-compete agreement that is legal and protects your interest better. Then propose that as an alternative to the employer.


However, I am very doubtful prosepective employer would sign it. Most likely
the response is going to be "My way or the highway"

However,