Owner of record in an estate sale

[Peter LeQuire]

I believe that we are discussing the owner of Record.

If we are discussing the owner of Record, then it's reasonable to assume that it must be Recorded to be a Record.

So you would disregard information that isn't of record?

But, the initial question came about because an appraiser had been asked to do something that is not illegal, nor unethical, nor fattening, nor morally reprehensible. As long as the date of the appraisal is the date of death of the record owner, or subsequent to it, why not accommodate a client dealing with an admittedly superfluous request? (And maybe get a fee for the change?)

"Who--or, what--is in title via the applicable public record source and within the normal SOW--is what (or, who) I report as being in title via the public source."

Lee - I understand; we're not a lot of things. Again, the "it ain't in the normal scope of work so I ain't gonna' do it 'cause you can't make me" may be defensible. It does have a certain ostrich-like QED finality that excuses refusing to do what the OP was asked to do. That said, the client made a request that can be accommodated without compromising law, regulation or ethics: I see no reason not to make the change.

 

[CindyR]

Well I am curious. How do all you folks know the owner is dead? Just because some realtor or some lender or some AMC or some client says the guy is dead? Now maybe in a small town like JoAnn lives in and she knows everyone and she probably brought a casserole to the family and went to the guys funeral then she can rely on her knowledge that the guy is dead.

But even then I would not assume that the 'owner of record' is the 'estate of the deceased'. There could be an unrecorded deed with a totally different person as the new owner (as of the date of death that I can not actually confirm). There could be another name on the deed. Just because one person is dead might not mean that their spouse is not now the sole owner. And it could be the owner is now in an assisted living facility and some family member is trying to pull a fast one.

And as for all the claims that the beneficiary is the owner I would find that highly doubtful as well. I've been watching the estate resolution of a friend of mine who died almost a year ago and left everything to a bunch of charities. The fiduciary has been working on the case for months and the house is not even listed but that list of charities has barely been notified that they have been named as a beneficiary and are surely not in any way the 'owner of record' for this home.

Just saying there are way too many unknown facts and circumstances for me to assume any one or anything is the owner of record unless of I have a record to verify.

 

[mark hurlock]

Well I am curious. How do all you folks know the owner is dead? Just because some realtor or some lender or some AMC or some client says the guy is dead? Now maybe in a small town like JoAnn lives in and she knows everyone and she probably brought a casserole to the family and went to the guys funeral then she can rely on her knowledge that the guy is dead.

But even then I would not assume that the 'owner of record' is the 'estate of the deceased'. There could be an unrecorded deed with a totally different person as the new owner (as of the date of death that I can not actually confirm). There could be another name on the deed. Just because one person is dead might not mean that their spouse is not now the sole owner. And it could be the owner is now in an assisted living facility and some family member is trying to pull a fast one.

And as for all the claims that the beneficiary is the owner I would find that highly doubtful as well. I've been watching the estate resolution of a friend of mine who died almost a year ago and left everything to a bunch of charities. The fiduciary has been working on the case for months and the house is not even listed but that list of charities has barely been notified that they have been named as a beneficiary and are surely not in any way the 'owner of record' for this home.

Just saying there are way too many unknown facts and circumstances for me to assume any one or anything is the owner of record unless of I have a record to verify.

Seriously?

The OP said they have an estate sale. The contract would contain the signature of the person authorized to dispose of the property, which may or may not be the beneficiary of the estate. If you need to take your job so far as to verify the will and who has authorization, DO IT.

It is called scope of work and you need to develop it. You need to decide what is enough to satisfy your compliance with USPAP.

 

[HF Mudd]

So you would disregard information that isn't of record?

Absolutely not, as I indicated in my first post (#15 quoted below).

The owner of record is the owner noted on the last deed filed.

You can explain the situation in an addendum, but unless a new deed has been filed, it is what it is.

I don't know with certainty that the owner of record is deceased, who the owner of record named as their executor, who the heirs are, etc., and I'm not about to take on any potential liability just so that ABC Lending can re-sell their paper.

In my neck of the woods (the boroughs of NYC) deeds are filed with the NYC Dept. of Finance's Office of the City Register. That is the one and only source of finding the owner of record, who may or may not be different than the owner in fact.

I cannot say with certainty what prevails in other markets, so my comments were needlessly definitive. However, I stand by my position that for the "owner of record" field, the owner of record, however the local market defines that, should be what is placed in that field. IMNSHO, if the owner in fact differs from the owner of record, that should be explained in an addendum. If you feel differently, and wish to place the owner in fact in the owner of record field and explain it in an addendum, I would find that practice acceptable, but it would not be my preference.

 

[Howard Klahr]

Well I am curious. How do all you folks know the owner is dead?

Because there are PUBLIC RECORDS for this too.

 

[NJAPRAZE]

Hello fellow PhillyApp.

Just ran into a similar situation in completing an FHA appraisal; in my situation, was led to believe the "sale" was typical and because the house was apparently "staged" - it appeared to be owner-occupied at the time of inspection (i.e. in TREND - it was not marketed as being an estate sale, and the listing had owner's name / not "estate of").

It wasn't until I was preparing the report and looked at the contract that I saw it was signed by an Executor. Took the prudent path and would not sign-off on appraisal until the listing agent provided documentation (which I subsequently included in the rpt addenda) SHOWING the legal appointment of the Executor... The listing agent had no problem doing this... but questioned why she had not needed to do this for other appraisers. I politely explained - "in the contract section of the appraisal report - I need to certify that if I've reviewed the contract, that the property seller is the "legal" owner as well as cite my source"... in addition to explaining that given the litigious environment, if not done correctly - I am exposed to future potential liability, etc.

So in answer to your question - the owner is the owner of record (possibly "estate of XXXX" as an alternative - if you include copy of death certif.) and if an executor signed the contract - just obtain legal documentation (i.e. Executor Short Certif. from Surrogate Court, etc.) showing that executor is authorized/appointed (due to death of owner)... and include in rpt.; if you don't, and an unauthorized person signed that contract that YOU reviewed and checked "yes" that seller signee is owner of record, guess who will have future liability if/when an issue arises??????

Hope this helps!

 

[PhillyApp]

NJ, thanks for the info...I concur with your approach.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

There could be an unrecorded deed

How would I know that then? Telepathy? Smoke signals? AND, in my state if a deed is "unrecorded" it ain't a RECORDED deed yet.

The question is simple. The form is unambiguous. Who is the OWNER OF RECORD. (as of a certain date.) Answer it. If they want an update tell them the only way to find it is to go to the courthouse and that costs time and money. What will you pay? That's the question.

 

[Lee Lansford]

... if you don't, and an unauthorized person signed that contract that YOU reviewed and checked "yes" that seller signee is owner of record, guess who will have future liability if/when an issue arises??????

Hope this helps!

But, of course, if the person signing is not the owner of record, why would the appraiser check the "yes" box?