PCV Murcor request: would you comply?

[ockyappraiser]

Brad you are missing my point. First, MLS data is a data source paid for by appraisers. I know many underwrtiers for national lenders that have similiar national access to such sources. In fact, requests for MLS sheet has come up only twice in my experience. This time, and one other where a small national lender (no longer in business) had cut costs and did not want to pay for the data. Frankly, it is illegal to charge for providing MLS sheets as you would be making money selling copywrighted documents.

I talked to my state board again on this. IF the CMA references only a list of sales in an area, a low, high and an average, it is not an appraisal. HOWEVER, if a predicted value if referenced tied to the subject based on the CMA it would be an appraisal.

You mention asking for MLS data from appraisers. Are you an independent appraiser or do you work for an AMC? An appraisal is simply a "summary" of the data I compile and interpret. Providing CMA's and MLS sheets is providing the data itself. The only possible uses for this by a national lender is to second guess/pick apart the appraisal or to build its own data system. Why would any appraiser give his data file to someone along with his report?

 

[CANative]

In the MLS systems I use, a "CMA" can just be a list of the sales and listings selected using any given search parameters. It can be sorted by date, MLS#, sold price, list price, etc, etc. There is usually a summary of the search parameters and the "stats" such as number of sales, number of listings, high, low, average and median as well as average days on market, etc.

There is an option to make adjustments but I don't think that's what this REO client is asking for. They just want a list of everything with some basic stats. I put this type of stuff in a lot of the reports I do.

I don't see the problem with the request except that it's kind of a hassle. I usually charge a little more when I see these types of requirements ahead of time.

 

[444nutman]

PE,



Mark is not talking about the state board- he is talking about his realtor board. Some of those boards try to restrict the printouts- Las Vegas is one.

Never mind that legal precedent would blow that rule out of the water.

As to the CMA I am not aware of any state that deems them to be appraisals without appraiser judgement involved- i.e. just letting the computer run its stuff- but if there is one then obviously the state law will rule on that. And if judgement is involved then USPAP already deems it to be an appraisal and that is at least referenced in the state law already.

Frankly, what I see here is Mark's reluctance to provide MLS printouts. If he is sure he cannot do that by MLS board rules he should simply communicate that to Murcor. However, he also questions whether or not he has a right to charge for it- witness his question over whether or not it ought to be given away for free?

So, sorry but what I am seeing here is just another instance of someone wanting more money- and if that is the real issue then he has to make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to work for that firm under those requirements and for the fee offered. It is not being asked of him "for free"- it is being paid for via an overall appraisal fee- just like any other client/agent requirement within the SOW decision.

So, if he cannot do it due to board rules (MLS board) then he cannot do it- it is pretty simple. However, if he thinks he can do it but wants to charge more then it remains a fee issue- subject to any state law of course.

When I order these things in Vegas I sometimes get the printouts as many simply ignore such MLS board rules (not suggesting this) and others give me a synopsis of each of the listings. I do not ask for CMAs as I find them pretty useless overall.

Brad

I am familiar with Murcor's fee. They make more than the appraiser on the appraisal so shouldn't they be able to afford MLS. I am glad that you allow your appraisers to violate MLS policy by sending you MLS printouts. Any other violations you overlook or does it just stop with the MLS sheets?

 

[Tudor]

PE,



Mark is not talking about the state board- he is talking about his realtor board. Some of those boards try to restrict the printouts- Las Vegas is one.

Never mind that legal precedent would blow that rule out of the water.

As to the CMA I am not aware of any state that deems them to be appraisals without appraiser judgement involved- i.e. just letting the computer run its stuff- but if there is one then obviously the state law will rule on that. And if judgement is involved then USPAP already deems it to be an appraisal and that is at least referenced in the state law already.

Frankly, what I see here is Mark's reluctance to provide MLS printouts. If he is sure he cannot do that by MLS board rules he should simply communicate that to Murcor. However, he also questions whether or not he has a right to charge for it- witness his question over whether or not it ought to be given away for free?

So, sorry but what I am seeing here is just another instance of someone wanting more money- and if that is the real issue then he has to make up his own mind as to whether or not he wishes to work for that firm under those requirements and for the fee offered. It is not being asked of him "for free"- it is being paid for via an overall appraisal fee- just like any other client/agent requirement within the SOW decision.

So, if he cannot do it due to board rules (MLS board) then he cannot do it- it is pretty simple. However, if he thinks he can do it but wants to charge more then it remains a fee issue- subject to any state law of course.

When I order these things in Vegas I sometimes get the printouts as many simply ignore such MLS board rules (not suggesting this) and others give me a synopsis of each of the listings. I do not ask for CMAs as I find them pretty useless overall.

Brad

I have never seen these extra requests include an additional fee they are willing to pay.

Seriously, AMC's are asking for more and willing to pay less. I think it is unfair of you to insuate that the appraiser is being "greedy".

Why do AMC's deserve more money then the appraiser? Makes absolutely no sense to me. AMC's run around, marketing to all the Lenders, promise them all kinds of things, including reduced fees for volume, corner that market for appraisals, then tell the appraiser, our fee for this work is 50% or less then what the going rate is. Oh and by the way, you can't go get your own work, cause we took it all, so sorry.

 

[Lobo Fan]

Many lenders require a BPO or a second opinion on REOs. It looks like PCV is trying to get a twofer. I got scammed by Corelogic once on a deal like that. They called on a Saturday morning wanting a desk review completed by Monday. I wasn't doing anything and jumped on it. It not only involved a review of an appraisal but a review of their POS AVM that had 15 comps on it.

Of course their comps were irrelevant. The subject was a 1200 SF 2/2 attached. Their comps were 2500 SF plus, detached. I think they were fishing for a higher value. It took me over 6 hours to wade through that thing. I was so upset that I got taken in like that. The next time they called, I laughed out loud.

So now they want an appraisal and a CMA to back up your appraisal. Not likely.

 

[Truett Neathery]

Fee

In completing an REO report for PCV Mucor I noticed that they require full MLS single page printouts on each sale used and each listing. Further, they require I run a CMA Report and attach it as part of the appraisal report.

I have asked our state board before about CMA reports. Their position is that if an appraiser does the report, as an appraiser, it is an appraisal. All condition apply.

Would that not be a second appraisal contained within an appraiasal?

I have never had this request in over 3000 appraisal assignments. I also do not, as a policy, provide MLS documentation as I have had this request only one other time. It was from a lender that did not want to spend the money for MLS data themselves.

What would you do?

I assume they offer their typical $240 fee for all that. Their requests are shotgunned over the whole region and are typically picked off within minutes or sooner by those who are willing to do the volume of work you describe for $240. Can we say desperado? How much time could be alloted to this type of work and still produce a credible value?

 

[Summer]

PCV last month asked for something so unethical I am filing a complaint against them. They are totally out of control.

 

[ockyappraiser]

As it turned out, PCV admitted that the request for MLS and CMA was unusual. However, Citi required it and since I chose not to provide it the order was cancelled.

Side note:

fee was $235 for full appraisal, REO addendum, 3 additional listings, full MLS sheets on each sale and listing, and CMA report.

 

[Brad Ellis]

All,

As I have said many times before, it is entirely up to you if you wish to work for an AMC or not. What they offer to pay and what their requirements are are a part of your scope of work decision nd your decision to accept it or not accept it.

Now one is accusing me of promoting violating MLS board rules by asking for the printouts. What balderdash!

But, I'll tell you what- there is nearly never a situation that comes up in which one or another of you decline to offer a "bash Brad" post.

OK- I get the picture.

No Mark- I do not work for an AMC.

Bye all,

Brad

 

[hglenbetts]

I didn't read the entire thread, so I don't know if anyone else made the comment.

In my MLS, there is a report print out called "CMA Report". A one liner for each selected property, giving several different stats.

"Sale price/Sqft/beds/baths/bsmttype/garge size/DOM/etc/etc"

Makes for a easy across the board comparison. Assuming, of course, the Realtor's data is accurate.