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$ per Square Foot Significance

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I'm no math whiz but statistics combined with logic absolutely fascinates me.

Me too.

Interesting discussion. I pretty much agree with what has been said in this thread and have little else to offer.

However, one thought does come to mind. FNMA wants price per gross living area bracketed. But, sometimes, especially when dealing with basements, that is not possible with any of the best comps. I have found that simply understanding and explaining why diffuses any negative reaction.

I usually put a comment in something like: "Price per Gross Living Area" was not bracketed because ???." Then go on to explain why; basement space, slightly poorer condition of the subject relative to the comps, site value of the comps, etc. Sometimes I don't even explain why, but just say something like: "Comp #2 came close to bracketing the upper range."

I realize that this isn't exactly about your topic with this particular realtor. But, maybe this level of understanding (firgure out what is going on that is throwing the $ per sq ft off and explain it with logic) would silence him/her.

_____

If you can't baffle them with brilliance, befuddle them with bull s***!
 
In my area the price per square foot can vary all over the board. Everything is custom, with views that can range from 100 mile Continental Divide to forest gullies, with site sizes and topography from one extreme to another, all within a half-mile radius of one another.
As an appraiser I can make adjustments that are supported in the marketplace, but are guaranteed to throw reviewers who aren't familiar with the area into heart failure.
Thank goodness the Realtors in my area understand that PSF doesn't mean diddly around here. More than a few deals have been nixed by underwriters who don't want to back mortgages in which land values exceed the cost of the improvements, or adjustments for site size, views and topography exceed a 10% line adjustment. End result is that I often have to go hunting for comps that are more than a mile away, even if the house next door that is similar in square footage just recently sold.
It's a delicate balance...trying to determine the true market value of mountain homes without alarming the reviewer, who sometimes isn't familiar with my area at all.
 
Steve Owen wrote:
“FNMA wants price per gross living area bracketed.”
Reply:
Complex statement. If the slope of the price trend line is lower than the lowest price per square foot and you use the correct sequence of adjustments, the price per square foot will bracket the subject if the sale data brackets the subject, as it should. One caveat though: One of the reasons I suggested you guys do the graphical analysis I posted above is because of some of the things it will reveal, namely in higher price dwellings due to the slope of the price trend line, the price per square foot increases not decreases. So, you can’t deal with size adjust or $/sf adjustments in the same way that you do with other properties. The reason most of you guys have different experiences with this problem is that each one of you is using a different sequence of adjustments. The sequence of adjustments comes from the market not the appraiser’s personal preference.

Dee Dee wrote:
“In my area the price per square foot can vary all over the board. Everything is custom, with views that can range from 100 mile Continental Divide to forest gullies, with site sizes and topography from one extreme to another, all within a half-mile radius of one another.”
Reply: The key words are custom and site sizes. Again, upper end custom dwellings result in a price per square that increases with GLA so the method of making size adjustments is the opposite than what it is for lower quality houses. So if you make any type of adjustment using $/sf you are going in the wrong direction. If you follow the correct sequence of adjustments and do a correct size adjustment you can gauge these other differences like the contribution of lot sizes and views. The sequence of adjustments comes from the market!!

PS: FNMA guidelines are not appraisal theory. If you are appraising according FNMA guidelines and ignoring sound appraisal theory you are in violation of USPAP. Actually USPAP is in violation of its own purpose and intend because it enforces practices and theory that are provably flawed.
 
Pammie,

Excuse me if I didn't get the full import of your
questions....appraisers can be such wordie mfers.

My range of adjustment for sf is $20 to $50,
with $30 most common. Its based on the
concept of marginal contribution, tempered
with the last square feet built are just carpet,
ceiling, and a little drywall (not furnaces,
fireplaces, or appliances---those expensive
things).

Why? Cause experience has indicated it is
a reasonable adjustment to make and I
have a tendency to minimize adjustments
and spend my time picking really good
comparables.

elliott
 
Elliott: With all due respect, in my experience you can’t import adjustments into a data set. The adjustment for size is there when you pick the comp sales, it is just a matter of making it. You have to know the definition of a perfectly adjusted data set and that is when the trend line of prices for adjusted sale prices is flat or with no slope. I use an animated graphical analysis meaning I look at the graph of the raw data 1st, then after every adjustment for physical features watch the graph of the trend line for adjusted sales form. When it becomes fairly linear it is time to stop making line item adjustments and make a size adjustment per sf using the adjustment that makes the trend line slope =0. Then any remaining variance about the trend line will reveal any additional value influencing factors. Then I graph GLA vs. sale price per sf and if the points are close to the trend line, I know all value influencing value factors are accounted for and can gauge the gravity of the remaining value factors. You will be amazed at how few adjustments are really necessary if you use the correct sequence of adjustments, assuming you did a good job of comp selection.
That point about comp selection is another area in which I question USPAP and existing appraisal practices. Quality of construction is the most significant adjustment and appraisers are basically flying by the seat of their pants when picking comps with absolutely no support. Then they turn around and turn another appraiser in to the state board for not making an adjustment for a $3,000 fire place when they couldn't know an adjustment was justified without a properly adjusted data set using the correct sequence of adjustments.
 
I'm with Brad. The price/SqFt indicator is measuring the aggregate of the structure and the site. If there are two homes of different sizes, side by side on the same size lots, they will have different price/SqFt indicators. Even if the quality and condition of the improvements are the same. Reason being that the contributory value of the site has a bigger impact on the price/SqFt indicator for the smaller home.

This is really apparent when appraising apartment properties. The example I always use when explaining this is the hypothetical matched pair analysis using the same sized lots, side by side in the same neighborhood. Both have the same zoning, but one of the lots has a 1,000 SqFt duplex and the other has a 1,500 SqFt triplex. The units being built by the same builder, same 1-bd unit floorplans and unit sizes, same quality, condition, parking, etc. Setting aside the possibility of different types of buyers (owner-user vs. investors) and the economy of scale considerations, these two properties will result in very different price indicators. The reason is that those price indicators for the structures include the pro-rata share of the site. The duplex property only divides the site cost/value by two units, whereas the triplex divides by three units. Ergo, the triplex property will almost always have lower indicators, the only exceptions possibly being very high-demand areas like a beach community or ski resorts. The lot utility is being utilized differently by these structures. Incidentally, this is the reason that it can be very misleading to compare value indicators for small apartment properties of different unit counts to each other. How many times are we handed duplex sales data as 'comps' for our 4-plex properties? How the sales agents here love to refer to apartment comps as "Price per Door", apparently not realizing that not all 'doors' are created alike. Invariably, the properties with more 1-bd or studio units have more value issues than the properties with more 2-bd and 3-bd units.

Then, as Brad and others have stated, there is the economy of scale thing. The 1,000 SqFt home and the 1,400 SqFt home will have different cost indicators because most, if not all, of the extra building area will be either living/family room area or bedroom area, both of which are much less expensive to build on a cost/SqFt basis than the more labor and material intensive kitchen and bath rooms. That, and the indirect costs, fees and permits, site costs, "other improvements (garage, site improvements, etc) are all dividided by the different sizes of the main structures. This is the same reason that we rarely use the Cost/SqFt from the Cost Approach as the adjustment for size in the Sales Comparison.

The main reason we rely more on price/SqFt on non-residential properties is because those properties are less homogenous and have a much lower quantity of highly comparable data than residential properties. If I'm appraising a new industrial building in a developing industrial park, all the buildings being of very similar size, my value opinions would come out the same no matter which unit of comparison I use; price/SqFt of the building, price/SqFt of improved lot area, sale price (a la SFRs), etc. Matter of fact, I sometime use the sale price itself as the unit of comparison for certain non-res property types here, such as highly improved contractor yards or car sales lots. Adjust separately for the differences in lot size and building area, then make adjustments for quality, condition, etc. It's not pretty, but then again, it's sometimes the only way these sales relate to each other.

Apples to apples. Like to like. The less similar the comparables are, the uglier the analysis gets.

George Hatch
 
Incidentally, this is the reason that it can be very misleading to compare value indicators for small apartment properties of different unit counts to each other. George Hatch


George, Thank you for the confirmation of what I have been trying to beat into the heads of some of my clients. Sooo many times when I have not "made value" on a SRIP someone will come back with a comp of different unit and room count and point out the price per square foot and suggest that I apply it to the subject!!!!!! My response is always NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!
 
FRR,

Around here, apartments never rent based on their square footage; they always rent based on their room count. When was the last time you saw a rental ad for "a gorgeous 900 SqFt apartment"? Nope, it's always "2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment", or "1 bedroom apartment". The size of the unit rarely even makes it into the ad. Unit size differences will result in minor differences in rent, but those differences are so small that they're hard to even measure on a consistent basis. Onsite parking availability and type are of greater impact than unit sizes.

Room count, baby. Apartments are all about room count. Besides, the SRIP form is a total loser unless all your comps are extremely similar. I hate that form the worst, especially the adjustment grid. I liked the old 2-page apartment form a lot better, even though it doesn't comply with USPAP without extensive addenda. Ahhh, those were the days....

George Hatch
 
Pam: e-mail me at jsunejr@bellsouth.net. I need your mailing address or fax number in order to send you 20 pages from a seminar which covered the $/SF issue.

Best regards: JES

:wink:
 

Reply: The key words are custom and site sizes. Again, upper end custom dwellings result in a price per square that increases with GLA so the method of making size adjustments is the opposite than what it is for lower quality houses. So if you make any type of adjustment using $/sf you are going in the wrong direction. If you follow the correct sequence of adjustments and do a correct size adjustment you can gauge these other differences like the contribution of lot sizes and views. The sequence of adjustments comes from the market!!

PS: FNMA guidelines are not appraisal theory. If you are appraising according FNMA guidelines and ignoring sound appraisal theory you are in violation of USPAP. Actually USPAP is in violation of its own purpose and intend because it enforces practices and theory that are provably flawed.

Agreed. But complicating my job is a large number of appraisers from the city who come to my 'hood with FNMA guidelines on the brain. They often will pull comps from their offices based on proximity to the subject (using non topographical maps), year of construction and square footage, sometimes even price per square foot, then make very conservative adjustments on other details that are very important factors in this market area.
Almost without fail they'll choose the comps with the highest sales prices, and almost always it's the inferior homes that get appraised well over what their true market value would be. I'm sure that when many of these appraisers get here and see that they are comparing apples to oranges they simply try to make it work so that they won't have to back up and redo their research. The worst I'm seeing are rookies with supervisory appraisers signing off without inspecting the property.
End result is that I get handed these bogus appraisals by the LO's and homeowners, and I'm expected to at least come in at the same value a year later. I just shake my head and walk away. Those homeowners are already in waaaaaay over their heads.
 
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