Permit Nay-sayers

[Wendy]

......We're not home inspectors, so why burden us with policing permits?

I'm with you Joyce.

Some people just can't resist a slippery slope. I've finally realized that you will never be able to convince them to avoid it.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

We're not home inspectors, so why burden us with policing permits?

Because we're valuation professionals, and clients are asking for our opinions of value?

FWIW, I'm not one for giving every property (subject and comps) the full physical, but research must be done when an obvious problem arises, just as the OP did.

I find this thread interesting in the context of another thread on the forum:

http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=139730

Value-added services have value.

 

[Louis Pompeo]

I think ZZGAMAZZ is looking for a pat on the back for doing something that we all do every day.....

Lets all give ZZGAMAZZ a round of applause!!!!!!!!!

HOOOOOOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! ZZGAMAZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:new_multi::new_multi:

 

[Mike Boyd]

What determines an 'exceptional' feature?

Where does the exceptional feature start or stop?

Seems to me if any improvements become affixed to the land, that's pretty exceptional.

If I decide to put Grandma's ashes in the backyard with a headstone, is that exceptional and is it the appraiser's responsibility to seek out any permits to make it legal?

We're not home inspectors, so why burden us with policing permits?

Besides, what does "needed repairs" have to do with the appraiser getting permits?

Frankly, Joyce, I would be VERY concerned if your grandma's ashes were buried in my backyard........unless you were my daughter. Hmmm. Have you ever wondered........."Who WAS that masked man?" LOL

 

[Brad Ellis]

zz,

I have said this before and will repeat it. It IS the job of the appraiser to determine what is and what is not legal.

Please note that there are really two separate issues- code compliance and zoning compliance.

While Greg is correct that municipalites rarely set the illegal improvements for demolition, I do want to assure you that it can and does happen. Mostly it is a threat to just get the back permit fees and fines, but if you do not comply wait and see what happens. And it the illegal improvements cause health/safety issues they would have to be addressed or else.

The code requirements could be addressed and you could still end up with illegal improvements.

I recently had one in LA that has been illegally converted into units. The city is enforcing the deconversion. So now I'll have either a SFR or perhaps a duplex (the city is negotiating with us on that part but is insisting on getting rid of unit #3). Its value will be dramatically altered. The origination appraiser's E+O will, I am assured by our counsel, be paying up.

I am working on one right now in Pasadena where both code and permit issues exist. On this one it is more simple with the code issues outweighing the permit and legality issues. But the city told me point blank that if I do not pay for the permits and fines I'll be losing both the patio and the porch on the second building (2 on a lot). It may not be a big value factor but it IS a value factor.

Brad

 

[TJSum]

Many counties have the permit history for each property online now, so it takes just a couple minutes of computer research to access all of this data. I would think ANY court or state board would consider it within the normal course of business that any peer would do with this information now so readily available. With the advances in technology and more readily available information, our responsibilites continue to grow along with the data. With each year our work files grow larger and larger.

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

ZZ,

I'm with you brother! Anytime the hairs on the back of your neck stick up...you need to do whatever is necessary to get them to lay back down again. We may not be the permit police and we may not be home inspectors but it's hard to overlook something that pokes you in the eye.

 

[CANative]

For the record, I'd like to clarify that I don't fill out appraisal forms and collect a check. If I think a permit check is prudent or necessary I will spare no effort or expense to do so.

it's hard to overlook something that pokes you in the eye.

And no one should. When something about a property pokes you in the eye then additional due diligence is required.

I recently had one in LA that has been illegally converted into units. The city is enforcing the deconversion. So now I'll have either a SFR or perhaps a duplex (the city is negotiating with us on that part but is insisting on getting rid of unit #3). Its value will be dramatically altered. The origination appraiser's E+O will, I am assured by our counsel, be paying up.

You're doing the same thing as ZZ... It was ILLEGALLY converted, i.e. you can't get a permit for a third unit because only two are permitted. The appraiser did not do his due diligence when the 3rd unit poked him in the eye. (the city probably cannot require getting rid of the 2nd unit because they have to comply with the civil code which allws 2nd units anywhere a single unit is allowed). But in any case, the problem was not lack of permits but rather the building of something that is not a permitted use.

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

Greg,

For the record, I would never associate your name with the term "form filler," nor would I insinuate as much.

 

[CCAAMO]

Legally permissible is part of the highest and best use analysis. If your not sure if an addition or remodel etc. was completed with permits and you don't feel it your job to verify it with the proper agency, then make the report subject to the owner or lender producing the permits. It's not all that hard or complicated. If you fee your not paid enough to do a property analysis then either raise your fee or don't accept the assignment.