Property Fence- FHA requirement?

[hastalavista]

Other than I hear an appraiser on the side of a hill yodeling out for a fence, would you please explain to all us forum members what in the world generated this question? Please explain how fences are needed for lending or for market acceptability? Or how a fence is required for FHA insurance?

Ok, I will!

In California (in every jurisdiction I've appraised), if one has a pool, one needs a fence to protect the neighboring properties from having access to the pool. It is considered a safety issue. :laugh:

 

[residentialguy]

Ok, I will!

In California (in every jurisdiction I've appraised), if one has a pool, one needs a fence to protect the neighboring properties from having access to the pool. It is considered a safety issue. :laugh:

Really. My mother lives in California and she has a fence around her back yard. The neighbor directly behind her is about 30' lower then her lot. I suggested that she take down her back side fence and enjoy a panoramic view. But the neighbor has a pool directly below. Maybe she should replace the fence with a wrought iron fence so that the neighbor doesn't turn around and put up an ugly privacy fence?

 

[Lee Lansford]

To all:

For a moment, THINK about all of the appraisers who do NOT have something similar to the AF or professional (not all are!) colleagues to ask questions similar to what the OP brings to us. Add in all the appraisers who are unaware of what they don't know and those who don't care to know and we have the state (well, at least a portion) of the appraisal profession today.

Can we even begin to guess as to the number (and I suspect the number is not small) of "appraisers" (because they have a license that indicates such status) who are working without a clue as to what is appropriate and what is not?

Oh, well.

 

[Webbed Feet]

If they have a fence built before 1978, it can't have peeling paint.

But getting into that one just caused a requirement to have the entire site surveyed in order to determine who owns the fence if it is a property line fence. Because if the subject lot owner simply states "I don't own that fence, it's on the neighbors property" how do you intend to prove otherwise or require the neighbor to correct the peeling paint?

Besides.... have you really seen a whole bunch of over 32 year old fences lately?

 

[Webbed Feet]

Ok, I will!

In California (in every jurisdiction I've appraised), if one has a pool, one needs a fence to protect the neighboring properties from having access to the pool. It is considered a safety issue. :laugh:

Ahhhh Brother DeSaix..... Me thinks that is considered a liability issue.

Safety regards the occupants of the subject property. A subject property occupant can still fall in and drown in their own pool. So the fence is not for safety regarding subject occupants. It can't protect the occupants of the subject property from themselves. I would think from a FHA perspective we take a leap once we start demanding safety items for all the world around the subject property. I suppose lack of a fence around a pool could be a code violation in many places. But it would not have to be a lot perimeter fence.

 

[residentialguy]

But getting into that one just caused a requirement to have the entire site surveyed in order to determine who owns the fence if it is a property line fence. Because if the subject lot owner simply states "I don't own that fence, it's on the neighbors property" how do you intend to prove otherwise or require the neighbor to correct the peeling paint?

Besides.... have you really seen a whole bunch of over 32 year old fences lately?

LOL, I've yet to find a homeown lie about it...(or one smart enough to think of the lie, might be a better fit)

Yes, we have fences here from early settlement. Unless you can prove it's not pre' 78, it'd be unwise not to call it. You've got nothing to lose, besides a lawsuit.

 

[hastalavista]

Really. My mother lives in California and she has a fence around her back yard. The neighbor directly behind her is about 30' lower then her lot. I suggested that she take down her back side fence and enjoy a panoramic view. But the neighbor has a pool directly below. Maybe she should replace the fence with a wrought iron fence so that the neighbor doesn't turn around and put up an ugly privacy fence?

Here's a quick story regarding fencing and pools:
I appraised a rental property in an urban/suburban neighborhood. The subject of my assignment (SFR) and the lot adjacent to the subject (SFR) was owned by the same owner. The owner, also a contractor, lived on the adjacent lot and he built a McMansion (before the term was coined).
Since he owned both parcels, he thought it would be a neat trick to put up a fence around the rental's improvement and use the rear yard of the rental's lot for his use. So, there was a fence that ran down the property line between the two properties (about halfway) and then cut across the rental lot. Effectively, the owner's lot had its rectangular rear yard shape and about 30% of the rental lot's rear area as yard space.
The owner built a pool on his lot. And then, the owner decided to build a pool house on the rear rental lot's area (that is now used as part of the owner's rear lot). It was a very nice pool house and the owner also used it as a home office. The pool house, BTW, straddles the property line.

Denis shows up to appraise the subject. Denis sees that we have potential encroachment issues. Owner and loan agent swear on a stack of bibles that everything is permitted. Denis decides to go down to the planning and building department to verify.

Building and planning tell me the following:
A. No permit for the pool house. It would not be allowed.
B. California Code requires a fence on the property line of a house with a pool. This is to protect neighbors from having an accident and drowning.
C. Inspector tells Denis that homeowner will have to put up a fence immediately (one without a gate between the properties). It did not matter that the lots were owned by the same owner. The code requires that the fence be on the property line (per the building inspector) and it was the pool-lot's responsibility to make sure there was a fence.
D. Denis leaves before inspector decides what to do about the non-permitted pool house.

 

[residentialguy]

Building and planning tell me the following:
A. No permit for the pool house. It would not be allowed.
B. California Code requires a fence on the property line of a house with a pool. This is to protect neighbors from having an accident and drowning.
C. Inspector tells Denis that homeowner will have to put up a fence immediately (one without a gate between the properties). It did not matter that the lots were owned by the same owner. The code requires that the fence be on the property line (per the building inspector) and it was the pool-lot's responsibility to make sure there was a fence.
D. Denis leaves before inspector decides what to do about the non-permitted pool house.

Wow, that sucks. Sometimes the letter of the law is ridiculous.

Is a wrought iron fence ok to put up? What's the height rule? She lives in Newbury Park (Ventura Co)

 

[hastalavista]

Ahhhh Brother DeSaix..... Me thinks that is considered a liability issue.

Safety regards the occupants of the subject property. A subject property occupant can still fall in and drown in their own pool. So the fence is not for safety regarding subject occupants. It can't protect the occupants of the subject property from themselves. I would think from a FHA perspective we take a leap once we start demanding safety items for all the world around the subject property. I suppose lack of a fence around a pool could be a code violation in many places. But it would not have to be a lot perimeter fence.

WF-

If the zoning ordinance requires a perimeter fence (which it did in my case as I describe above) because without it, the zoning authorities consider it a safety hazard, I'd call it such (either FHA or GSE) and let the DEU or UW decide differently.

But that's me!

Your argument is similar to making an argument that a known and permanent hole in the front yard with the dimension of a pool is not a safety hazard because the occupants know about it. :icon_wink:


Anyway, you asked for an example of where a fence would be necessary. I gave you one. If you don't agree, that's ok with me (but better be careful if you run across situation like I described when appraising with FHA as an intended user! :new_smile-l.

 

[hastalavista]

Is a wrought iron fence ok to put up? What's the height rule? She lives in Newbury Park (Ventura Co)

I have no idea (but would assume a wrought iron fence is sufficient).