Public Sewer Connection: Feasibility

[Mike Ault]

“Appraiser must report the availability of public sewer to the site”.

There you go. Government is not the best on being clear but how can you determine, “availability” if you don’t do what I posted?

How about "Public sewer runs directly to the rear of the site", "Public sewer is located across the street from the site". "Public sewer is located 5 mi from the site". By following the handbook in that manner, you have reported "availability" without the liability involved with providing a "feasibility study".

 

[RSW]

“Appraiser must report the availability of public sewer to the site”.

There you go. Government is not the best on being clear but how can you determine, “availability” if you don’t do what I posted

Called FHA.

There is nothing in writing which supports your post. My experience with the FHA is that you can call and talk to 5 different people and they will give you 5 different answers. I've been on the FHA panel since 1997 and have never had to determine the cost to connect and if it were feasible.

 

[Tom4value]

How about "Public sewer runs directly to the rear of the site", "Public sewer is located across the street from the site". "Public sewer is located 5 mi from the site". By following the handbook in that manner you have reported "availability", without providing a "feasibility study".

Sounds like you are trying to convince me you don't have to determine if it is economically feasible to connect. It is not me you have to convince. Report "Public sewer is located across the street from the site" and do the report "as-is" and state, "The appraiser determines that the property conforms to minimum FHA standards as outlined in the HUD handbook 4000.1"

If you get audited, let me know what they say.

 

[alebrewer]

Just bought a place and having public water installed. $2k for the meter and another $2k to bore under the street to get water to my side of the street. Brutal.

 

[Mark K]

Just bought a place and having public water installed. $2k for the meter and another $2k to bore under the street to get water to my side of the street. Brutal.

I'd say you got off pretty cheap compared to either drilling a new well (if necessary and if they let you) and compared to a lot of other locations.

Permit fee, system availability fee, connection fee, inspections fee, impact fee, other misc. BS fees that the local municipality can heap on the owners, on top of the cost to physically connect (about $20/foot from the meter pit to the home here) can easily run from 2-5X that amount.

Throw in the cost to abandon the well and the plumbers cost for the interior connection, you can start getting into some serious $$.

And then you can get into the problem of higher water pressure from the town (85 psi here) causing leaks in old plumbing (most wells here are about 50 psi.).

 

[alebrewer]

I'd say you got off pretty cheap compared to either drilling a new well (if necessary and if they let you) and compared to a lot of other locations.

Permit fee, system availability fee, connection fee, inspections fee, impact fee, other misc. BS fees that the local municipality can heap on the owners, on top of the cost to physically connect (about $20/foot from the meter pit to the home here) can easily run from 2-5X that amount.

Throw in the cost to abandon the well and the plumbers cost for the interior connection, you can start getting into some serious $$.

And then you can get into the problem of higher water pressure from the town (85 psi here) causing leaks in old plumbing (most wells here are about 50 psi.).

Oh, we're putting in a well as well. Gonna be about $5k for that. No issues with 'old plumbing' - everything is brand new.

 

[Sadie]

“Appraiser must report the availability of public sewer to the site”.

There you go. Government is not the best on being clear but how can you determine, “availability” if you don’t do what I posted?

Many municipalites have server and water maps as to where those services are currently available. Also, you can look up the availability of public (sometimes private) sewer and water, natural gas, garbage and power company. If a county webpage does not have that info, the service provider will. So you just need to find out if any of those services are available and report that. For instance, Sewer and water pipe are within X feet of the subject property. Or there are no services readily accessible to the subject property. What no water/sewer/garable/whatever company? Report that. Can't be feasible if not available. The only exception to this is if the connection to public sewer and water is required on deed transfer. Then feasibly is moot.

 

[Sadie]

I'd say you got off pretty cheap compared to either drilling a new well (if necessary and if they let you) and compared to a lot of other locations.

Permit fee, system availability fee, connection fee, inspections fee, impact fee, other misc. BS fees that the local municipality can heap on the owners, on top of the cost to physically connect (about $20/foot from the meter pit to the home here) can easily run from 2-5X that amount.

Throw in the cost to abandon the well and the plumbers cost for the interior connection, you can start getting into some serious $$.

And then you can get into the problem of higher water pressure from the town (85 psi here) causing leaks in old plumbing (most wells here are about 50 psi.).

Its super cheap

 

[Sadie]

There is nothing in writing which supports your post. My experience with the FHA is that you can call and talk to 5 different people and they will give you 5 different answers. I've been on the FHA panel since 1997 and have never had to determine the cost to connect and if it were feasible.

You do have to address the feasibility of connecting to public sewer and water. It can be done in a singe sentence. By address feasiblity I mean, report where/if there is infrastructure to support connection, not actual cost.

here ya go: "
B. Individual Sewage Systems:

1. Individual sewage systems may be acceptable when the cost to connect to a public or community sewage system is not reasonable as defined by the lender.
   • a) 3% or less of the estimated value of the property is the suggested benchmark.b) The lender is responsible for determining if connection is feasible.
2. If the property cannot be connected to a public system, FHA will accept individual sewage systems that are acceptable to the local health authorities. This includes numerous types of sewage systems including cesspools, individual pit privies, and mound systems.
3. Inspection and/or testing is not automatically required, but is required when such actions are customary in the area, when the appraiser suspects a problem with the system, or problems are common in the area. In these instances, the appraiser is to condition for a certification by a professional such as the local health authority, a licensed sanitarian or an individual determined to be qualified by the DE Underwriter.
   • a) FHA does not require the lender to submit evidence or documentation in the case binder that the state or local jurisdiction requires a test or inspection.
4. For distances between water sources and sewage, required for new construction, please see HUD Handbook 4150.2 Section 3-6 and CFR 200.926d.

References: 4905.1 Rev-1, 4150.2 Section 3-6 and Mortgagee Letter 2005-48."

 

[Mike Ault]

You do have to address the feasibility of connecting to public sewer and water. It can be done in a singe sentence. By address feasiblity I mean, report where/if there is infrastructure to support connection, not actual cost.

here ya go: "
B. Individual Sewage Systems:

1. Individual sewage systems may be acceptable when the cost to connect to a public or community sewage system is not reasonable as defined by the lender.
   • a) 3% or less of the estimated value of the property is the suggested benchmark.b) The lender is responsible for determining if connection is feasible.
2. If the property cannot be connected to a public system, FHA will accept individual sewage systems that are acceptable to the local health authorities. This includes numerous types of sewage systems including cesspools, individual pit privies, and mound systems.
3. Inspection and/or testing is not automatically required, but is required when such actions are customary in the area, when the appraiser suspects a problem with the system, or problems are common in the area. In these instances, the appraiser is to condition for a certification by a professional such as the local health authority, a licensed sanitarian or an individual determined to be qualified by the DE Underwriter.
   • a) FHA does not require the lender to submit evidence or documentation in the case binder that the state or local jurisdiction requires a test or inspection.
4. For distances between water sources and sewage, required for new construction, please see HUD Handbook 4150.2 Section 3-6 and CFR 200.926d.

References: 4905.1 Rev-1, 4150.2 Section 3-6 and Mortgagee Letter 2005-48."

That guidance was superseded by this long ago…


4150.2 Valuation Protocol D-19, revised 01/06