Public Sewer Connection: Feasibility

[Terrel L. Shields]

I'd say you got off pretty cheap compared to either drilling a new well (if necessary and if they let you) and compared to a lot of other locations.

Depends upon the well and the regulations. I know places in Colorado where a well was drilled and it was $1,000 - 40' deep but a meter had to be put on it and paid a monthly water bill to the water district. Here, a 300' well often works and costs about $8000 or so to complete. But some parts of the county a 100' well works and cost less than half that. Out in the delta there are places you can drive a perforated pipe 30' into the ground from the back of your pickup bed and have plenty of water. Our poultry farms often drill to the Roubidoux Formation 2,500' or so, and those can cost $60k easy plus, the farmer has to install 80,000 gallons of storage - big plastic tanks. and a specialized pump to provide steady pressure to the chicken houses. Plus, they often need a filter to get rid of the sulphury taste. Ditto where some wells encounter natural gas in the water.

And to me, the investment in a well beats paying X dollars every single month to the rural water district or town. So, the trade off is does the cost of the well exceed the ultimate cost of monthly payments. My well is 41 years old. Same pump, same pipes. I replaced the pressure tank once - bladder went kaput. Cost about $1,300 plus few hundred dollars in repairs over the years vs 492 payments and $1100 hook up fees. Plus my water does not taste like chlorine and alum.

 

[Zoe]

How about "Public sewer runs directly to the rear of the site", "Public sewer is located across the street from the site". "Public sewer is located 5 mi from the site". By following the handbook in that manner you have reported "availability", without providing a "feasibility study".

The problem is when you know the local jurisdiction rules and they say "NO".

I have appraised tons of rural properties where jurisdiction is like "we don't care'

We have some very strict jurisdictions in the County I work that say: "it is our way or the highway".

They are like we know you were rural before we incorporated you. You are no longer unincorporated. I am sure you know that by your tax bill.

 

[Zoe]

I also have to be real careful when properties are on line of subject between local jurisdictions. We only have like 7 or 8 jurisdictions in like one County.

I am not lying to you. We had largest public school district in the Nation before the individual jurisdictions said we are forming our own public school districts.

They did it.

 

[Zoe]

I'll probably leave a jurisdiction out. Memphis, Millington, Lakeland, Bartlett, Arlington, Collierville, Germantown.

7 different jurisdictions in one County.

Play that AMC.

I already know your doom on fastest and cheapest AMC.

 

[Zoe]

I left Shelby County out. That was number 8.

 

[Sadie]

That guidance was superseded by this long ago…

View attachment 90969
4150.2 Valuation Protocol D-19, revised 01/06

Agree, but how to determine what reasonable is? Since we are not acting as excavators or sewer installers, whatever we come up with as a cost can be misleading. I mean the last time I installed a sewer or water line was never. We can guess vis a search, but it is just a guess and many disclaimers are needed.

 

[Mike Ault]

Agree, but how to determine what reasonable is? Since we are not acting as excavators or sewer installers, whatever we come up with as a cost can be misleading. I mean the last time I installed a sewer or water line was never. We can guess vis a search, but it is just a guess and many disclaimers are needed.

"Reasonable" and/or "feasible" are descriptors that fall under the lender's purview. It's easy to get "underwriting requirements" mixed up with "appraisal reporting requirements" when combing through the myriad of FHA guidance. 4150.2 used to require appraisers to indicate the location of the well and septic system, their distance from each other & the property line on the building sketch as well. That guidance was rescinded about the same time utility connection "feasibility determination" was shifted over to the mortgagee where it belongs. Judging by the amount of stipulations I receive for "separation distance information", however, apparently the word hasn't gotten out about that either.

 

[RSW]

You do have to address the feasibility of connecting to public sewer and water. It can be done in a singe sentence. By address feasiblity I mean, report where/if there is infrastructure to support connection, not actual cost.

here ya go: "
B. Individual Sewage Systems:

1. Individual sewage systems may be acceptable when the cost to connect to a public or community sewage system is not reasonable as defined by the lender.
   • a) 3% or less of the estimated value of the property is the suggested benchmark.b) The lender is responsible for determining if connection is feasible.
2. If the property cannot be connected to a public system, FHA will accept individual sewage systems that are acceptable to the local health authorities. This includes numerous types of sewage systems including cesspools, individual pit privies, and mound systems.
3. Inspection and/or testing is not automatically required, but is required when such actions are customary in the area, when the appraiser suspects a problem with the system, or problems are common in the area. In these instances, the appraiser is to condition for a certification by a professional such as the local health authority, a licensed sanitarian or an individual determined to be qualified by the DE Underwriter.
   • a) FHA does not require the lender to submit evidence or documentation in the case binder that the state or local jurisdiction requires a test or inspection.
4. For distances between water sources and sewage, required for new construction, please see HUD Handbook 4150.2 Section 3-6 and CFR 200.926d.

References: 4905.1 Rev-1, 4150.2 Section 3-6 and Mortgagee Letter 2005-48."

No where did it say the appraiser has to determine if it is feasible. Also, your sources are dated and have been replaced with the 4000.1 handbook.

 

[Zoe]

No where did it say the appraiser has to determine if it is feasible. Also, your sources are dated and have been replaced with the 4000.1 handbook.

Yeah, don't stick your professional nose where it don't belong. Get a licensed and bonded contractor to do that. Say I would be happy to do that for you but you might want to handle that on your own.

My fee will be pretty high to get you 3 bids to study. You will determine what you want to do and if it is feasible.

I want my fee up front too if you would like me to do it for you.

 

[Carnivore]

No where did it say the appraiser has to determine if it is feasible. Also, your sources are dated and have been replaced with the 4000.1 handbook.

BINGO!! Page 848 of the current 4000.1

Onsite Sewage Disposal Systems (09/14/2015)i. Definition An Onsite Sewage Disposal System refers to wastewater systems designed to treat and dispose of effluent on the same Property that produces the wastewater.ii. Required Analysis and Reporting The Appraiser must note the deficiency of MPR or MPS and notify the Mortgagee if the Property is not served by an off-site sewer system and any living unit is not provided with an Onsite Sewage Disposal System adequate to dispose of all domestic wastes in a manner that will not create a nuisance, or in any way endanger the public health.The Appraiser must visually observe the Onsite Sewage Disposal System and its surrounding area. The Appraiser must require an inspection to ensure that the system is in proper working order if there are readily observable signs of system failure. The Appraiser must report on the availability of public sewer to the site.The Appraiser must note the deficiency of MPR or MPS and notify the Mortgagee if the Appraiser has evidence that the Onsite Sewage Disposal System is not sufficient.

SO WHAT DOES THE PPRAPPRAISER DO NEXT? E OR DO NOW. tHEY REPORT THE PROBLEM AND CONDITIONS THE REPORT SUBJECT TO AN INSPECTION BY A QUALIFIED eNTITY UNDER A HYPOTHETICAL ITS OK , ALSO IN AN ADDENDUM REPORTS THE NEAREST CONNECTION TO MUNICIPAL SEWER LINE AND ESTIMATES THE COST. In rural areas it is not likely that it can be done.

So is it feasible? In my county it aint going to happen. So what next? Well the Well/septic companies can offer solutions. It can get real expensive!

In the end the property may not be eligible for FHA financing.