Realtor Ethics

[Ken B]

A defense attorney acts as an advocate for their client, but they can't kill the witness.

 

[J Grant]

Ken , the URAR certs don't mention MLS, they do say, that "appraiser has adequate market data to reliably develop an SCA." A lender can put in engagement letter that appraiser has MLS access of course (which may or may not mean membership)

I do work for lenders direct as well as a few AMC's, and they require appraisers to put in addendum their data sources , how far they drove to the subject from home /office and one asks for how many similar area properties appraiser has done in the past year.

Which serves to point out that it's mainly BS from agents throwing tantrums about the supposed plethora of appraisers with no MLS and coming from far away etc.

The tantrums are because they've lost control of picking the appraiser and want it back. Agents need to do a good job of qualifying buyers /re cash avail and advising sellers about what makes a good offer and pricing properties well ; that would increase their success rate in closing financed transactions.

 

[Non Sequitur]

If by the above you mean that the real estate agents are acting as advocates for their clients, well that is their job.

Yep advocates. Well at least until their client wants accurate living area, accurate age, or an accurate description of condition. Funny how you and other Realtor advocates throw around fiduciary duty as the reason Realtors have the right to judge an appraiser's competency. But somehow there's no fiduciary duty to their client when it comes to accurate information, and that's why more than a few call BS on your ethical Realtor claims.

 

[George Hatch]

Nobody here supports choosing appraisers from 50 miles away based solely on them having the lowest fee.

OTOH, if the challenge is based on geographic competency how about we stipulate - as a group - that 50 miles away means one thing in some areas and nothing in other areas. It means one thing in certain types of assignments and nothing in other types of assignments. So the one-brush-tars-everything-equally argument just doesn't scan.

And let's be real here - these agents only really have one criteria to distinguish the horrible from the competent. I actually disbelieve as being untrue and completely fabricated the allegation than an *appraiser* handed another appraiser a list of really comparable properties and the 2nd appraiser totally ignored them all in order to lowball a property. I've never once met an appraiser who would go out of their way to make things difficult for themselves just to obstruct a deal they didn't "like".

What are your expectations when you come in low on a value an appraisal? Do you expect your client to pat you on the back and tell you how stoked they are to find out that loan file they've been working on for the last 2 weeks is never going to yield them a deal? Do you expect these agents and buyers and sellers to just roll over and cede the win to you based solely on your status as an appraiser?

Or do you anticipate that there will be at least some pushback at least some of the time?

And if you do anticipate that opposition, then why on earth would you go out of your way to enter into that conflict ? Especially when you consider that your client relationship may be on the line if you're wrong?

I simply don't believe most appraisers are that committed to "throttling the market". As far as I'm concerned, if that isn't a red herring, it's at least a little pink.

 

[TRESinc]

the appraisal process is the same no matter if the subject property is 5 miles from my house or in poland. my state says i am competent to do an appraisal anywhere within it's boundaries. i can be "geo-competent" anywhere in the world so long as i put in the time and research to do so. setting some arbitrary number, be it 30 miles or 50 miles or 200 miles, means nothing.

that being said i limit my coverage area to what i feel comfortable with based on the amount of work it takes to know what is really happening in the markets i cover. would i do an appraisal 200 miles from my "office"? probably not. could i, and do it competently? you betcha.

 

[Don Clark]

Nobody here supports choosing appraisers from 50 miles away based solely on them having the lowest fee.

OTOH, if the challenge is based on geographic competency how about we stipulate - as a group - that 50 miles away means one thing in some areas and nothing in other areas. It means one thing in certain types of assignments and nothing in other types of assignments. So the one-brush-tars-everything-equally argument just doesn't scan.

And let's be real here - these agents only really have one criteria to distinguish the horrible from the competent. I actually disbelieve as being untrue and completely fabricated the allegation than an *appraiser* handed another appraiser a list of really comparable properties and the 2nd appraiser totally ignored them all in order to lowball a property. I've never once met an appraiser who would go out of their way to make things difficult for themselves just to obstruct a deal they didn't "like".

What are your expectations when you come in low on a value an appraisal? Do you expect your client to pat you on the back and tell you how stoked they are to find out that loan file they've been working on for the last 2 weeks is never going to yield them a deal? Do you expect these agents and buyers and sellers to just roll over and cede the win to you based solely on your status as an appraiser?

Or do you anticipate that there will be at least some pushback at least some of the time?

And if you do anticipate that opposition, then why on earth would you go out of your way to enter into that conflict ? Especially when you consider that your client relationship may be on the line if you're wrong?

I simply don't believe most appraisers are that committed to "throttling the market". As far as I'm concerned, if that isn't a red herring, it's at least a little pink.

You won't get an argument from me George. I recently responded to a post on this forum where an OP stated that VA appraisers always came in lower in value than appraisers doing FHA and Conventional. From the sales I see daily on all assignments I do, I see that is simply not true. Most appraisers are honest, hardworking, and want to do a credible job and produce a credible appraisal. My contention is that will only happen if the appraiser selected for the assignment knows the market and has access to sufficient market data to do a credible appraisal. But, when someone from a completely different market ask me to supply them with MLS and other data, I suspect that credible appraisal may not occur.

And, I am not an advocate for anything except my own work, and appraisers in general. I am not an advocate for any real estate agent. I simply believe that in a case where they encounter someone coming from an area far removed from their own market, and asking an agent to supply them with what they do not have access to, and shows apparent ignorance of the local market, that real estate agents have a right to question whether or not that person should have access to a listed property. But, I would also recommend that the agent call the lender and ask the lender for guidance.

As to advocacy, I am a long term member of a state coalition of appraiser in North Carolina, and a member of the BOD of a state coalition of appraisers in Virginia. I do advocate for appraisers as a member of both organizations.

 

[J Grant]

Since most lenders and AMC's have restrictions about assigning orders to appraisers from over X miles away, where in the world are these RE agents encountering so many far away appraisers? Hard to believe it happens that often.

i'm starting to think the "appraiser was out of area " excuse is a code phrase for "MV did not match SC price"


IS it possible that whenever a SC price is not met, the RE agent blames it on appraiser mysteriously being from "out of area"? , or that appraiser asked them for comps ? (some highly experienced appraisers on this board say they ask RE agents for comps)

And what will happen if RE agents get their way and start blocking as a matter of course, even if on the QT, access from any appraiser they deem from out of area? That leaves the appraisers from in the area. RE agents will still be unhappy if a SC price does not come in. Then they will blame it on appraiser not being in business long enough, or not asking questions at inspection, or asked too many questions, etc. Through process of exclusion agents will winnow it down to a core group of deal friendly appraisers, which is what they want.

 

[Don Clark]

Since most lenders and AMC's have restrictions about assigning orders to appraisers from over X miles away, where in the world are these RE agents encountering so many far away appraisers? Hard to believe it happens that often.

i'm starting to think the "appraiser was out of area " excuse is a code phrase for "MV did not match SC price"


IS it possible that whenever a SC price is not met, the RE agent blames it on appraiser mysteriously being from "out of area"? , or that appraiser asked them for comps ? (some highly experienced appraisers on this board say they ask RE agents for comps)

And what will happen if RE agents get their way and start blocking as a matter of course, even if on the QT, access from any appraiser they deem from out of area? That leaves the appraisers from in the area. RE agents will still be unhappy if a SC price does not come in. Then they will blame it on appraiser not being in business long enough, or not asking questions at inspection, or asked too many questions, etc. Through process of exclusion agents will winnow it down to a core group of deal friendly appraisers, which is what they want.

I might buy your argument if...................the appraiser had already appraised the property and came in low. But, how can that be the case if the appraiser from 100-200 miles away has not appraised the property? How can a low value be the reason then?

Maybe you live in an area where out of area appraisers never do appraisals. i live in real ville where it does happen. It has become so widespread that the state Realtor Association is looking into it. I assume you might object to that too?

 

[Ken B]

If I am a hard money lender, I'm thinking I would rather have someone travel 100 miles to appraise the property if they are ethical and have the competency to do so rather than someone who might live across the street of the property if that "local appraiser" never met a value they didn't like.

 

[Delta85]

If the Realtors don't let skippies in the property then **these low life's** coming from 100 miles for $250.00 are out of business !!! The lender will start forcing the AMC to employ local appraisers who know the community and it's nuances. The appraisers have lost control and have no ****s to just say no to these low fee's and 24 hour turn times. If it takes the Realtors and NAR to get these people under control then so be it . I am not talking about value pressure. Most of the Realtors are not pressuring for value but when they know 20 local appraisers who have lived in their city for 20 plus years and know the area it's a bit much for the AMC to be sending runners from 75 to 100 miles away . Im sure it's different in rural areas but I am located in Los Angeles County and home prices can change by hundreds of thousands of dollars just by crossing a major street. The appraisers have lost control of everything. Don't blame the Realtor it's the appraisers who got put in a corner and most are now AMC slaves.

I have to laugh when I see these kinds of posts, especially coming from an appraiser. Do you really want to grant authority to a biased party who's interest is only closing the deal and collecting commission and giving them the authority to veto and approve appraisers?

How many times must it be explained that realtors not only lack the official authority to approve appraisers but lack the knowledge to even determine if an appraiser is competent or not?

Gosh, an appraiser from the Ukraine who just got his license last week could fly in via fighter jet and get all his comparable data from the local wino and as long as he hit the right number realtors would support him.